What is a Greymuzzle?

(2017-02-22 0:35)Alliana Wrote:  I consider Jakkal from Werelist/Awereness forums to be a greymuzzle because she's been around for a really long time. Anyone here? I am unsure of, maybe BearX would be one but other than that, I don't really know anyone.

I was in AHWW a few years before Jakkal (1993-ish), but was away from online therianthropy for about 10 years starting around 2006. I dunno if it is your start date, or your cumulative time in the online community that determines if you should be called one. I'm certainly honoured someone would consider referring to me that way -- although to be fair my IRL muzzle is getting quite grey. I would never claim the title for myself -- it seems conceited. It has always seemed to me something that is used to describe someone else as a way of saying they've been around awhile.

I want to say the use in the therian community predates the use in the larger furry community -- because I heard it used in the former several years earlier.

(2017-02-22 1:55)BearX Wrote:  I want to say the use in the therian community predates the use in the larger furry community -- because I heard it used in the former several years earlier.

That's actually interesting to know. I have heard my mother use the term "Greymuzzle" since I was a child, but she was very active in BBS groups and she happened to know folk who identified as "animal people" (when I told her about Therians, she kind of perked a bit and was pretty impressed it "lasted this long". Meaning she thought it was a phase?) and they still remain friends.
Wonder if she knows more than. I believe xD

Hey guys,

Time to necro an old thread.

I just thought I'd link this Therian Talk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZhBsAlDsWQ
...in it BearX and Zef touch upon the question of greymuzzles, among other things.

LP,
Dusty

To put my perspective out here, I agree that "greymuzzle" should be a term of respect and I'm cautious if someone self-proclaims as one.

From a community perspective, it makes more sense to me for the term to indicate the level of activity, contribution and overall support they have given - rather than the amount of time they have been in the community.

If someone has been in the community for 20+ years but has contributed little, it seems silly (perhaps even hazardous) to use the term for them unless there's something else to help substantiate. Do they help newer members understand the history of the community, or have the helped others overcome some of the issues within the therian experience? Do they actively try to build the community rather than sort of just exist within it?

Most importantly, do they worry more about whether they are considered a greymuzzle, or do they try to find ways to use the respect they've earned toward further benefitting the community?

Though it's rare for me to observe such, it's difficult for me to see someone call himself or herself a greymuzzle without me saying "How are you currently working to benefit the community?" Just saying you're a greymuzzle sort of asserts that you demand respect or for people to listen, which isn't always in the best interest of those within the interaction.

Beyond that, if someone has supported the community in various ways in the past but has stopped doing so, I can understand that a degree of respect may be expected toward the individual but find it hazardous for anyone to expect contemporary members to automatically submit to those individuals because of the past. "I did these things ten years ago!" shouldn't be a selling point for newer members in the community to follow the individual blindly.

All that said, I've jokingly called myself such in the past, mostly without realizing and respecting the term as it is nuanced in the therian community (it seems to carry less weight in the furry circles I've been involved in throughout the past, where saying you're a greymuzzle because you're older than a bulk of the community seems acceptable and more cutesy).

After being called out from someone by using the term in the therian community, it struck me; why would someone really feel the need to use the title to describe himself or herself (outside, again, trying to be cutesy or funny)? Without proper context, now I almost view the term as I do when someone appears out of the blue and claims to be "alpha" - is it an attempt at asserting dominance or control? Not always, but it raises a red flag for me.

I suppose this is where it makes more sense to evaluate an individual's nature, actions, interactions and history rather than to jump to any conclusions about them because of a title, whether it's self-given or even given by the community.

If someone feels the need to say "I'm a greymuzzle" (unless I'm certain it's in a joking manner), my mind almost always seems to go to "What are you trying to pull?" X3 Is it a power move or an ego stroke? Is it really just a playful joke? It can be very difficult to distinguish, especially over online media.

Realizing that different personalities are about, I suppose I'd expect someone who's truly earned the title to have a sense of humbleness to go along with it.

- ZN

My view on this topic is pretty simular to Zef's.

The most frequent occuring 'explainations' of 'greymuzzle' I've seen in the community are:

Quote:One who's in the community for more than 10 years.

and

Quote:One who's 30+ years old.

But then you stumble on certain problems, like these:
- One who is 10 years in the community, might have been inactive for 9, have had a bad influence or didn't get involved in anything at all.
- One who's more than 30 years old could be part of the community for less than a week..

I get extremely frustrated when I am in a ferretgroup with a discussion about healthcare or food and one advices something that's straight on unhealthy or toxic (like giving them banana to eat), and when you say it's unhealthy they go on a ramble 'I've owned ferrets for 20+ years!?' My usual question then is: 'and how old did they get?' , they say 5. I say they should become 8-10. 'not true! I've owned them for 20+ years!' YEH and see how many years of life that has cost them!

And this Exact case you can find back within the therian community.

Like recently someone on fb claimed to be in the community since early 2000's and that they were a greymuzzle, they denied the existence of therianthropy day and said we were making stuff up and being ridiculous. They acted very childish and 'butthurt' on the way too. One who doesn't know anything about the community, uses an amount of time as a reason to be greymuzzle and acts completely chidish.. doesn't sound like a greymuzzle to me at all.

For me, the positive influence they made on the community is the main factor making one a 'greymuzzle', on top of that the knowledge does surely too, and the age/time in the community can add to it.

But without any knowledge or influence, they're just a regular long-term member to me.
And that's all fine! Greymuzzles ain't any better than regular members. 'Greymmuzzle' just means (to me) that they have had some special role in the community like making a positive change etc.

My two cents.
WOOF!
PD

(2019-02-28 20:26)PinkDolphin Wrote:  For me, the positive influence they made on the community is the main factor making one a 'greymuzzle', on top of that the knowledge does surely too, and the age/time in the community can add to it.

Yes.

From what I have seen / can tell, greymuzzles are typically called so as a sign of respect; someone who is older and has more experience, but also someone who has contributed to the community... a "community elder", basically. (Which I believe is what's inferred by the word in the first place?) Most members I've seen called that are those who are respected within the community as people to listen to, obviously not in a "their word is the command" sense but in a "they have a lot of worthy knowledge" sense.

(2019-03-01 0:09)Future Wrote:  

(2019-02-28 20:26)PinkDolphin Wrote:  For me, the positive influence they made on the community is the main factor making one a 'greymuzzle', on top of that the knowledge does surely too, and the age/time in the community can add to it.

Yes.

From what I have seen / can tell, greymuzzles are typically called so as a sign of respect; someone who is older and has more experience, but also someone who has contributed to the community... a "community elder", basically. (Which I believe is what's inferred by the word in the first place?) Most members I've seen called that are those who are respected within the community as people to listen to, obviously not in a "their word is the command" sense but in a "they have a lot of worthy knowledge" sense.

That's how I see it. They're experienced and have been around for a while. They're looked up to.

Hey...

A topic came up in shout about grey muzzles and some therians being more experienced than others. I wasn't sure whether to post a thread about it because it caused some drama.... but it's an interesting topic so why not?

Honestly, the grey muzzle term is ok, but it's sometimes overused and abused just like any other term which defines people and makes them seem better. But... I don't understand how a therian can be more experienced than another one? When I asked the question they just got mad so I didn't get an answer. Do any of you believe you can have more experienced therians, or no?

I always saw the Grey-Muzzle label as a way to separate older therians (usually 30+ but sometimes 25+) from the teenagers and young adults of the community. It was a term to denote respect to elders (as without them we wouldn't have the information and community we have today). I don't think it's a title that denotes superiority in and of itself, people who see it that way confuse me as it means they neither respect nor appreciate the efforts put in place by the Therians before them. This is said loosely as obviously not every thirty year old therian has contributed their life's work to the betterment of the community, but chances are if they've remained in the community that long, they've done something. That alone should be appreciated.

Moving onto the word grey-muzzle itself...I don't know if someone being older inherently makes them better, I think this is a line of thinking that only a child would have and get offended by. Adults all tend to have the same respect for each other on general matters, and give appreciation as needed for deeds. Grey-muzzle when it comes down to it is more for show than any type of fake therian ranking.

But that's just my two cents.

Therianthropy isn't a video game; you can't level up or gain "experience" with anything other than your own identity. If someone claims to be more experienced, I suppose it can mean they've discovered and been comfortable with their own theriotype for a while, but one therian can't be more knowledgeable than another when it comes to a person's identity.