Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" - "identity"?

So, I stubmled upon this article today, unfortunately.

Quite frankly, I find the reduction of our experiences to an identity movement very insulting. Furthermore, my feelings of animality are not contingent on virtualization. I felt more animal than human before the internet was even available to the consumer.

My scorching take: If Alt-H wants to push the narrative that experiences and feelings of animality belong in the same category as xenoidentity and other such nonsense, it's time for us to denounce the "umbrella term" and fracture off those of us who have serious experiences and feelings of being non-human with those who simply regard the concept as some type of pseudo-state of being through virtualization and identity.

A growing trend that I've noticed in the otherkin community is an alignment with Alt-H's position and while I acknowledge and respect that there are serious otherkin who do not subscribe to these regressive views, I would argue that perhaps they should take caution to distance themselves from the more extremist faction of their community.

My bottom line is that we should not accept being forced to let "kinnies", intersectionality and identity politics bastardize and erode our culture, our meaning of what therianthropy is and the way we view being or feeling non-human.

I am, of course, open to and interested in other views which are well-reasoned, even if they do not align with my own.

Lyc

Fully agree. If this is what it comes down to let em' burn. We'll be here

I found the article rather pretentious and the alt h organisation sometimes have some odd ideas. But I rather like the alterhuman umbrella, it's a nice idea I think because it allows for a spectrum so people don't grill eachother to see if they fit in. Because they will fit in atleast somewhere.
I tend to stick around therian spaces more because I have more in common with but the larger alterhuman thing is fine by me. Kinnies are really nothing to worry about, they aren't a threat. Trans antikin say the exact same thing about therians as a whole, that we're stealing their thunder and embarrassing them.
People can subscribe to or distance from any worldview they vibe with, posting a warning feels too authoritarian and patronising.

(2020-09-27 16:43)LycanTheory Wrote:  My bottom line is that we should not accept being forced to let "kinnies", intersectionality and identity politics bastardize and erode our culture, our meaning of what therianthropy is and the way we view being or feeling non-human.

The missing context is that for some time, there was agreement among the staff that... There has been a push in many communities (everything from us Therians to completely culture-based stuff like Furries), to make the community available to a wider audience and in the process we've been asked to betray our origins.

For example, people in the furry community see a problem with people having feral (quadrupedal) fursonas, because they feel this offends against some people's sensibilities. Yet, having an animal fursona is at the core of what furry is all about (a point no doubt felt more strongly by therians in the furry community) and by changing furry into something that is more compatible with a wider audience, they are effectively destroying what Furry used to be.

Realising a similar push has been occurring in Therian communities -- the desire to deny or exclude certain therian experiences in an effort to make Therianthropy more palatable for a wider audience -- we decided to push back. Therianthropy doesn't have to be popular, it however does have to stay true to Therian experiences.


The argument @LycanTheory presents here is... related.

Personally I don't see any harm in Alt+H being some kind of an umbrella that includes Therianthropy for what it actually is. But I have always been opposed to attempts to merge all of the varied experiences of Fiction, Therians and Otherkin into a single concept. Our experiences differ, our history differs. Yes, some people do not understand the differences, but it's not all the same thing, it never was.

I am sure that everyone with actual Therian experiences understands the significance of those beyond simple identity. If there is some kind of push to simplify what we experience into the largest common denominator, we are loosing what Therianthropy is actually all about.

Yes by rejecting that push, it will make Therianthropy less popular and accepted by fewer people. Heck, it might even make some people refuse to associate with us. But at least we will still have a community, for actual Therians. A home where there are people, who understand and accept those with Therian experiences -- the actual reason we are all here.

LP,
Dusty

(2020-09-27 18:02)Lopori Wrote:  But I rather like the alterhuman umbrella, it's a nice idea I think because it allows for a spectrum so people don't grill eachother to see if they fit in. Because they will fit in atleast somewhere.

My position for the past 6 years has been somewhat similar. I do believe animality is a "spectrum" and not something that one either fits or doesn't fit into in a rigid sense and I do believe it is harmful to exclude those who share at least some fundamental similarities, even if there may be some stark differences.

However...

(2020-09-27 18:02)Lopori Wrote:  Kinnies are really nothing to worry about, they aren't a threat.

I disagree with this.

My concern has nothing to do with kinnies, Tumblrkin, Alt-H or whoever "stealing our thunder" or embarrassing us. It's rooted in the fact that the only thing therians and serious non-human otherkin have in common with these other groups is in the "kin" namesake.

The experiences, culture and values of these other groups will infiltrate and poison our own communities as it's already doing. Many of the older therians, myself included, have been under very fierce oppression from these loud, intolerant and unruly people who are, quite frankly, ignorant to the culture and heritage of therianthropy. This is not speculation or projection on my behalf, it is observable fact.

Furthermore, the inclusion of these groups who share no common ground with us further obfuscates what the non-human experience is and presents serious challenges to those of us who are actively working to improve the lives of therians through real research.

Lyc

(2020-09-27 18:02)Lopori Wrote:  I found the article rather pretentious and the alt h organisation sometimes have some odd ideas. But I rather like the alterhuman umbrella, it's a nice idea I think because it allows for a spectrum so people don't grill eachother to see if they fit in. Because they will fit in atleast somewhere.
I tend to stick around therian spaces more because I have more in common with but the larger alterhuman thing is fine by me. Kinnies are really nothing to worry about, they aren't a threat. Trans antikin say the exact same thing about therians as a whole, that we're stealing their thunder and embarrassing them.
People can subscribe to or distance from any worldview they vibe with, posting a warning feels too authoritarian and patronising.

Have to agree more with this line of thought here.

To an extent we all merge together, and for the fair bit of us that frequent many different spaces, it's just going to create a melting pot of sorts whether we like it or not. I do not mind umbrella terms due to this very reason. Also the fact that an umbrella term is just that, and prompts someone to look into a much more specific route within it. We are all sections of the whole umbrella.

I also do really hate the term 'kinnie' for describing the younger snowflakes or over-the-tops. But that aside, kinnies I wouldn't truly consider a threat that'll take us all down unless you consider say....youtube and the droves of young therians acting out. For every kinnie you'll get a legit therian. It's up to us to filp the image. They are only a threat if we do not have a say, in which we do.

I'm going to be honest. Nobody really knows about our groups like that. The inner politics or drama is ridiculous because as a whole, we're very clandestine. We don't have a "culture". We have a history. yes. Anthropologically speaking, we have a history of collective experiences. Not rules or traditions.
This makes me question what are we really pushing to become, as a collective 'people'. I do look forward to seeing the outlook of our community. We seem to be at some crossroads right now (or just on here).

First of there is something I don't completely understand in this thread, but A. am curious about and B. I feel I have to understand to fully follow the conversation. Being:

ALT-H is described as a movement here, and appearently a movement that is pushing therianthropy and other experiences in a certain way or trying to equalize(?) it with things like xenogender. However, I wonder where this information comes from? Are there posts by Alt+H on this matter or anyhthing else of what they're doing that is potentionally harmfull to the therian-community? As all I can currently see is a very miseducated otherkin trying to be popular in that article (really.. 'my doll prefers x pronouns and my fox prefers x pronouns' rings a big alarmbell to me as well as many other things they said that make me believe they're not exactly a therian but perhaps rather an otherkin or spiritually something else?) and an ALT+H websiteb/blog (is it therefore a movement) that's been inactive in a while.

(2020-09-27 19:13)DustWolf Wrote:  Personally I don't see any harm in Alt+H being some kind of an umbrella that includes Therianthropy for what it actually is. But I have always been opposed to attempts to merge all of the varied experiences of Fiction, Therians and Otherkin into a single concept. Our experiences differ, our history differs. Yes, some people do not understand the differences, but it's not all the same thing, it never was.

On this, I agree.
I personally don't see any issue with the term 'alterhuman' in fact it's been the most inclussive and peacefull term so far that can form an umbrella term for easy use within the community and a sense of unitement between platforms. Tho I've heard some who say it's offensive because they're not an alternate version of human or feel no umbrella term should exist at all (valid opinion but I believe it's in todays world unrealistic, Someone will come up with an umbrella term and use it). Likewise there is the nonhuman vs alterhuman 'fight' of those saying 'I'm not fully nonhuman so I want alterhuman!' or 'I'm not an alternate human, I am nonhuman!' etc..

so alterhuman.. is fine to me. clear, inclusive, ..

but I had forgotten by now that the term 'alterhuman' originated from a movement called Alt-H+, and it is true that this raises some .. fear? from me. As to what a movement like such could be capable to do And what message it may bring to the assuming outside world.

if anyone can understand what I'm meaning to say here, that is. I've had a bit of trouble being clear in explainations lately. (i've been tired, I guess)

Yes I can understand that PD. I also agree with dust as well in that area.

But as with any movement in the current times, all very...'progressive' more or less, there will always be a fear from those who either do not want the original meaning of it to be muddled, or from those who do not see the movement as useful.

There will always be misinformation, but it depends on who is doing the researching. Going back to my statements, we are not really a movement either. We are not well known. That said, I don't think the rest of the world is going to be appalled depending on what we do in the future. I think these things are very micro level, and if not that, petty to an extent. We won't be ruined. Many of us who have legit experiences will persevere regardless. Through the many changes this community will have for years to come..

Oh dear... Honestly I could not read through half of the article provided.....

*Deep breath* If I can be honest.... the people that are being written here are the same group to ruin other communities. It does not matter what kind of community it is...a hobby....a group of people. It is why some are pushing gatekeeping which is unfortunate.

No one minds differences...it is how they're forced to pay attention to them which deteriorates the meaning and the experiences of the communites. Making it identical to the other communities they are in.... (I hope I explained myself well, my mind is a little off today)

(2020-09-27 20:28)Vintage Wrote:  They are only a threat if we do not have a say.

We are losing our say, at an exponential rate, in spaces that are predominantly Alt-H and the more Tumblr-ish side of Otherkin - Amino, Instagram, ect by being shouted down and selectively excluded if our views regarding animality or "kin" don't align with the new status quo which has been set by people with nothing in common.

Good faith efforts by Ulfrvif, Bear-X, myself and others to offer insight as to what therianthropy means to us and to our generation of therians -the generation that founded the online community- are being met with such disdain and contempt that many of us have all but given up trying to educate or even offer our views. The result is that articles like the one in the OP get published and advertise that therian/otherkin is an identity one can self-determine as a means of "virtual escape".

Of course it won't take long, if that particular depiction is pushed, before therian and otherkin communities are flooded with people who are simply looking for an escape from reality and at that point, all is lost for the sake of intersectionality and reckless inclusion.

TL;DR

If people want an escape from reality, there's a whole slew of fandoms out there where one can pretend to be whatever they want. That's not what therianthropy is and we shouldn't let it become that.

Lyc