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Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" - "identity"?
elicat
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Post: #31
RE: Why therianthropy is not Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" - "identity"?
First, I’ve got to preface this by saying that Alt+Human is NOT a generally agreed upon thing within the greater otherkin community. It has been just a recent trend that is NOT accepted in all, or even most, places. It seems centered around Tumblr and we all know how that place is. Rolleyes So I don’t put any serious stock into it. The term does not represent the community as a whole.

That being said @LycanTheory, please do not confuse this Alt+Human bullshit with Otherkin. As I have said many, many times before, otherkin is the umbrella term for “someone who is other than human” and has been actively in use since the 1970’s. This Alt+Human fad is a recent development designed to control and change an already existing, useful term, by molding it into something specific to include everyone. Otherkin does not, by it’s very definition, include everyone, nor should it. Therefore, I will say it again for those of you in the back: Alt+Human is NOT the same thing as the umbrella term Otherkin!!!

Secondly, and maybe even more notable, is that the only current, active otherkin forums are Kinmunity and OKP (which is associated with TG now). OKP is not up and running yet, even though it was years ago. That being said, I’m not sure how much serious stock we can really put into anything from Kinmunity, given our history of disagreements there. Furthermore, this schism between different online non-human communities is nothing new. We've always argued about definitions and terms and there's always been a "well at least we're not as crazy as THAT group" amongst us. But the arguing over who is RIGHT has always been a thing.

So onto the meat of the real issue, how do we solve this appropriating of our terms and group culture?

If we don't want “kinnies” to bastardize our community, history and terminology, we’ve got to go back to gatekeeping. And do it strenuously, so really, grilling. (There, I said it!) Being a therian and otherkin is not a fad, this is not a club, this is not something the “cool kids are doing”. It is a real experience that we live with every day. In the end, there is a right and a wrong way someone either is 'kin or they're not. We need to stop being afraid to tell young children, and anyone really, that "Hey, no that's not right, you ARE wrong, but here let me suggest this to help instead.".

It happens in the real world, so they might as well learn now. Not everything can be molded into exactly what you want because that is not how the real world works. There is disappointment, loss, failure, and learning to grow as an intelligent adult. And sorry, but sometimes, you need to just be told that you're stupid so you can learn and move on. In other words, put on your big boy/girl panties and shut the fuck up!

Bottom line: you cannot choose to be ‘kin and in a lot of cases, people are NOT and they need to grow the hell up and realize that.

I think the solution here is to educate where and when we can, on what real therians and otherkin are. While politely correcting the idiots. It's what we've always done when a new, stupid fad has occurred in the communities. And thankfully so far, we have endured! Yes, we're often the internet's mocking playground, but what else is new? The assholes have been doing that since the 70's too and we're still here and serious!

And @BearX if people are forgetting our history and culture, then us older therians have to share what we remember. And that is done via essays, social media, discussions here, etc. Get your history out there in a thread dude!

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2020-09-30 15:27
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Post: #32
RE: Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" ...

(2020-09-30 8:13)Rosy_Spex Wrote:  Gatekeeping Therians based on levels of integration sounds pretty cringe too. It sounds like everyone is trying to keep things in their own neat little boxes, but that's not how real life works, especially the ego.


I believe you have missed the entire point of this discussion as it has nothing to do with gatekeeping or putting anyone in boxes.

The otherkin and alterhuman communities are moving to define themselves in such a way that is contradictory (and a bit insulting if I'm honest) to what's widely accepted as thetianthropy. We are not an identity movement that's manifeststion exists solely in virtual space where we can "escape from our bodies". Nor do we have anything to do with "glitch feminism" or any of this other identity politics nonsense.

If that's the direction that alterhuman and otherkin want to go and obviously it is, considering the level of praise this article has received, that's all fine and good for alterhuman and otherkin. Power to them! But it's in no way representative of thetianthropy is and therefore, these terms are not suitable for use as an "umbrella" for therianthropy.

My advocacy is not to gatekeep, isolate, nor exclude anyone from our spaces. It is to acknowledge and embrace that these three concepts are different. They have different origins, different history and different meanings. I do not believe it does therians nor otherkin justice to be misconstrued as alterhuman and I do not believe it does thetianthropy justice to be misconstrued as otherkin.

Therianthropy is therianthropy

Otherkin is otherkin

Alterhuman is so vague that I'm not sure exactly what it is, in earnest.

Furry is furry

There may be overlap between all of these to some varying degree and that's great! Neither should be used as a descriptor of the other, though. They are not the same, none of them manifested from the other (with the possibility of alterhuman being a spin-off from otherkin, in which case otherkin would be the umbrella to alterhumanity.) And all three have their own seperate history, topics and issues which pertain more exclusively to them than the other groups.

Lyc

2020-09-30 15:53
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Post: #33
RE: Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" - "identity"?
I think otherkin shouldn't be an umbrella term for therians because I see them both as separate abut equal (like two Venn diagrams as circles that never interesect). Same with being alt-H, I don't believe therians should be under that either.

But that's just me.

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2020-09-30 15:59
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Post: #34
RE: Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" - "identity"?
Hmm... I did not know Alter Human was a new....thing..... I've recently heard it on Amino... It seems that I may have to ask a question here to get everyones opinion....

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2020-09-30 17:18
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Post: #35
RE: Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" ...

(2020-09-30 15:27)elinox Wrote:  If we don't want “kinnies” to bastardize our community, history and terminology, we’ve got to go back to gatekeeping. And do it strenuously, so really, grilling. (There, I said it!) Being a therian and otherkin is not a fad, this is not a club, this is not something the “cool kids are doing”. It is a real experience that we live with every day. In the end, there is a right and a wrong way someone either is 'kin or they're not. We need to stop being afraid to tell young children, and anyone really, that "Hey, no that's not right, you ARE wrong, but here let me suggest this to help instead.".


Finally, someone said it. I wholeheartedly agree with this. After interacting with other therian communities which, most of the time are in my age group, it became evident that they are very intolerant of anyone telling them what to do. That includes being given advice. They see therianthropy as a form of escapism, and if you attempt to destroy the little bubble that they've encased themselves in, they'll give you hell for it.

There seems to be a strong "do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody" attitude among these people. And if you even dare to question anything about their identity being incorrect you will be called out, labeled as an evil gatekeeper, and put on a "do not interact" list.

It's unfortunate, but the only things that can get these people to budge is time and grilling. They are stubborn, oh so stubborn and they're not going to give up their little identity label without a fight. However, I said time because like Eli said, It'll pass over soon enough if we stand our ground against this fad.


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2020-09-30 18:30
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Post: #36
RE: Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" - "identity"?
Wholeheartedly agree with @elinox and @Saorise Fiain here.

Therianthropy is not an identity movement... it's not a "movement" at all, it's a people. We're an extremely small subset of the population that have always existed in history, and, no matter what the label is, what we are doesn't change.

Therianthropy should not be popular. It should not be mainstream. It simply cannot be because of the nature of it. The more of a fad it becomes, the more it gets lumped together with internet-spurned identity movements, the more of its history and meaning will be lost. I know it was hard enough for me to even find a place serious about it. It's very refreshing to see a private community that takes what we are seriously.

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2020-09-30 19:33
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Post: #37
RE: Why therianthropy is NOT Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" - "identity"?
@Kaliska Shizuka Near as I can track down via Google, "Alt+Human" has only been in existence since 2014. And it is from, shockingly, Tumblr here.

The website alt-h.net has a date of 2019, so very new. And as the info there says, it was created to basically include everything as an identity. Or, translation, for those sad people who weren't part of the otherkin or therian groups and didn't like being left out. *sad pout* Rolleyes

So two things of note: 1. alt+human is a NEW term and 2. near as I can find, most otherkin want NOTHING to do with it, because...wait for it...it's STUPID!

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2020-09-30 19:43
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Post: #38
RE: Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" ...

(2020-09-30 19:43)elinox Wrote:  alt+human is a NEW term...


I quite liked "alterhuman" when it was first coined. One stated purpose was to resolve the otherkin/therian tension -- since the two groups have similarities but different cultures. By allowing the therians back out into their own group yet still having a neutral umbrella, the hope was to resolve that tension. It would also provide a way for other groups with a non-human view to have an umbrella.

Unfortunately, it turned into a movement, and like all movements it gained rules and various personalities. The coiner of the term distanced himself, and the whole thing seems to be a mess at this point, and encouraging more of the "identity politics" that were already at the heart of much of the conflict in the communities.

It's a bummer.


(2020-09-30 18:30)Saorise Fiain Wrote:  ...it became evident that they are very intolerant of anyone telling them what to do. That includes being given advice. They see therianthropy as a form of escapism,


The problem with going into these groups and providing the kind of help they need -- the people who are the problem are in charge of them. I spent quite a bit of time in some of them, and my posts were censored, deleted, I was given warnings about the content, and so on.

What can you do when anyone can create an Amino or a Discord, and just carry on with their own personal fragment of the community which is no longer recognizable? It becomes a matter of marketing and mindshare, which is ridiculous for something so personal.

I'm very frustrated with how things have been going for the last five years or so.


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2020-09-30 19:50
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Post: #39
RE: Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" ...
I stand with Elinox in that we should not mistake alt-H with otherkin, and that was my main concern in my posts and the title of this thread didn't help me. Inevitably yes, we may get some alt-humans in the therian and otherkin communities. Question is how keen are we on gatekeeping and how it will be implemented if we are to do such. I've heard of some ideas.

I'd personally point new members to other communities that would further help them but I won't toss them out if they do not belong here (the last thing we need is for TG to be viewed negatively. Again. Or any other serious community for that reason.
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(2020-09-30 19:33)Werewulfra Wrote:  Wholeheartedly agree with @elinox and @Saorise Fiain here.

Therianthropy is not an identity movement... it's not a "movement" at all, it's a people. We're an extremely small subset of the population that have always existed in history, and, no matter what the label is, what we are doesn't change.

Therianthropy should not be popular. It should not be mainstream. It simply cannot be because of the nature of it.



Yes, this is my sentiment as stated pages ago. There is no movement and we are not one. The 'culture' of our community will change but we personally stay the same. A community doesn't define a collective experience- it's the similarity of that experience. We are not well known enough for the outside world to really care (with enough digging people can and do find reputable sites if they need information. Not through amino or tumblr- I think most people out of their teens can figure that.)..

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2020-09-30 21:44
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Post: #40
RE: Why therianthropy should be divorced from Alt-H and possibly "otherkin" - "identity"?
Based on what @elinox and @BearX have written, it looks safe to say that "alterhuman" should probably be regarded as a rogue fragment and most certainly not an umbrella for otherkin or therianthropy.

Also, going on what elinox has written and what I've observed outside of here, I'm going to speculate that alterhuman has probably been influencing (moreso bastardizing) the otherkin label for quite some time.

- This is likely why it seems "the otherkin community" (people who call themselves otherkin on social media) has drifted far from any similarity to therianthropy and towards all this nonsense garbage that has nothing to do with either of us.

Vintage Wrote:I stand with Elinox in that we should not mistake alt-H with otherkin


If I am reading all of this correctly, the issue becomes a need to more or less restore and preserve the meaning of otherkin and to make clear that Alt-h is it's own thing?

Lyc

2020-10-01 10:11
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