It's past 3AM here, take what I say with a grain of salt. If I sound emotionless, snappy or rude, it's just me being tired (physically).
(2020-05-01 23:43)elinox Wrote: This comes down to the fact that early on with these online communities, many in the therian community did not want to be associated with a group of non-earthly animals or creatures. Many of the other subsets under the otherkin umbrella were seen as less “real” than therians because they identified as fictional or mythological beings. There’s no proof that elves or unicorns exist in this reality, so those who identify as them are somehow less valid than someone who identifies with an animal you can see and learn about like an eagle or a lion. It's easier to accept that you're a recognizable animal you're familiar with than an alien from another planet.
While I understand what you try to say. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. This is a New thing.
Up until 213/2015 ish (mind: the first 22 years!) any animalistic, instinct-driven 'animal' was seen as therian. Not 'earthen' or 'non-earthen' terms that make equally less sense than dividing fat from skinny or blonde from brown haired transgenders. Because the shape does not influence the experience, so should not be a factor to seperate two people, communities or experiences.
So 1992/3 - 2015ish (mind: the first 22 years!) any dragon, werewolf, .. was deemed therian. If animalistic and instinct driven. Look up the surveys of AHWW in 1995 & 1996: the second highest percentage of members is dragons. And we cannot deny the wendigos and I think gryphon? Or well.. the other non-earthen creatures on there.
I personally know Many therians from TG, amino, instagram, facebook, kinmunity (tho I no longer associate with that place) etc who personally opt for the instinct & animalisticness definition again and basicly spit at the earthen-crap (sorry for my language, it just makes no sense to me)
(2020-05-01 23:43)elinox Wrote: I have been a part of both therian and otherkin groups for many years. In all that I’ve seen, the experiences are very similar. Not identical, obviously, but then neither are my experiences as a wolf therian the same as another wolf therian's. But there is enough overlap that grouping them together not only makes sense semantically, but is just pure, simple fact. If you identify as something other than human, then you’re otherkin.
Kith-experiences are often very simular to therian experiences. A lot of kiths have frequent cameo shifts from their kithtype. And s you said, some otherkin explain their otherkinity through a spirituality, connection, relation, bond etc. Not that different from Kith.
But does that make therian the umbrella term of Kith? Hmmm, no?
Some fictionkin identify as animalistic characters. The experiences are often the same as a therian. Simular experiences, simular kintypes.. Does that make fictionkin an umbrella term of therian? Hmm, no?
Lumping experiences together into a big ball just because they overlap and are simular, or because you can somewhat recognize the one in the other, does not seem the appropiate thing to do.
I wonder truely why otherkin Has to be an umbrella term. When there is no need for it really. Both are simular, live as much in harmony and connected as Kith and otherkin, copinglinkers and therians, fictionkin and theriomythics etc etc.
Do we also have to come up with an umbrella term for all canine-kin weither therian, fictionkin or otherkin just because WE CAN? Because the experieces are heavily simular? Werewolves, direwolf-fictionkin and dog therians! Let's unite and call us C-Kin! .. is what I mean to say. (obviously, a joke)
(2020-05-01 23:43)elinox Wrote: Here’s a good example: I knew someone who identified as a chaotic being, a demon, in her words. And, to the best of her knowledge, she experienced what therians would call shifts; she would have mental shifts into a more chaotic mindset, and she experienced phantom limbs. Her experiences, from what she shared, were indistinguishable from someone who identified as an animal. The only difference is that demons don’t exist in this reality, whereas animals do.
So you.. mean a therian?
I mean, his experiences aka shifts are animalistic, wild, feral, instinct-driven and not controlled by a source of magic, myth, human like conciousness like talking etc?
That's a therian, by the first 22 years of the community.
Unless if he prefers to call himself a theriomythic.. ofcourse.. the term created by the dragons etc to escape from being pushed out of the therian community and into otherkin terms they didn't feel fit them.. in 2013-2015? Because suddenly therians were earthen-only?
Or if he really feels it fits him best, then he is free to call himself an otherkin! His choice.
My point is: let the experience decide. His experience is what in 1993 would have driven a werewolf, wendigo or dragon to AHWW instead of any otherkin platform there existed. Because they related more with the animalisticness.
What Has to be different nowedays?
”DustWolf’ Wrote:And if you need an umbrella term, call us Alterhuman (Alt+H).
Accept that there’s already an umbrella term, and it’s "otherkin".
Which is highly highly confusing because whenever used no one knows if it is meant as umbrella term or 'non-earthen'/non-animalistic creature. It's not logical to have 1 term have 2 definitions.. I know of many new members who get very confused about this.
Quote:Alterhuman 1. Makes us all sound like we’re robots and
That is a personal association you ty with it. Well taken out of context: 'other than human', doesn't mean 'robot' unless if you associate it personally with it or wants it to sound that way.
And to be fair, I've personally after using that word since 2018 and disucssing it many times Never heard that complaint, issue or statement before.
I did hear issues with the word 'human', for some who find it weird to call themselves that word. But nothing related to objects or robots.
Quote:Keep in mind, alterhuman also includes people who feel connected to inanimate objects, concepts, etc. In my mind, those are not otherkin. So I suppose otherkin would be closer to living/alive creatures and animals whereas alterhuman would be for things. And the difference in experiences between those two groups is much larger than someone who identifies as a fairy and someone who identifies as a rabbit.
1. I'd say my experience as a dog is about the complete opposite than the experience of a fairy, mermaid or elf. I'd honestly compare it more to the experience of a plant or a toaster if I'd have to choose. Because those can't think, and react out of instinct (plant). Which is about what I experiene with a dog mindset. Not words, magic and human like thoughts. So I'd oppose that (some) therians are more related to the experiences of plants or objects than any otherkin that deems himself a human-like creature.. as we are about the opposite of it.. (nothing wrong with mermaids etc tho)
2. Alterhuman is not for concepts etc. or well, mostly not. It's also for therians, otherkin, fictionkin, modern vampires, furries who feels it fits them, some systems, soulbonders, daemons, Kith, copinglinkers etc.. you can find like a 20-long list on therian wiki if you'd like to look into what 'altherhuman' actually means and was created for.
The whole point of it, is being much more inclusive than otherkin just wanting to claim therian (basicly) but leaving ANY other simular experience (copinglink, kith, modern vampires, u name it) aside.
It's a more free and inclusive term that sounds like the best and most peacefull option to me.
And if you don't like the sound of it: either get over your personal association with it, or make a suggestion for an alternative sound (I heard 'alterkin' by example once being used or 'alterhumanity' or anything you feel gives less of a 'robot vibe').
We are still a community of discussion. Want anther term? great! Suggest.
But having one term have 2 definitions. While excluding a whole lot of other non-human experiences but for some (sometimes obsessive-looking) reason hunting to claim therians within your term..
Quote:Every time this topic comes up, there are many therians who vehemently argue that therians are not otherkin. Yet they never say WHY. And I think it comes down to simple ‘us vs. them’ mentality. It’s much more realistic to claim to be a real, living, breathing earth animal and much harder to believe if you claim to be an angel.
Seen I consider any dragon, gryphon, unicorn, etc a therian (unless if they prefer to be called otherwise by individual choice) I can proof to you that earthen vs non-earthen or 'u can't proof urselves' b*llsh*t has nothing to do with it for me.
So let me give my reason as simple as I can put it:
Therians experience a certain animalisticness, that otherkin do not.
Never did, never were meant to include.
We are about the exact opposite, again, as any mermaid or elf like creature. A dragon with a concious mind that can think straight, form words, use magic. We are about the exact opposite.
There are several more factors like the 'reasons' or 'causes' or 'believes' that make one an otherkin, that are not always deemed to make one a therian. The histroy behind the communities. The unnecessarity of combinging the communities. (tho I don't see recognizing two communities as different yet related, as a seperation. see it like how there are kith in the therian community and many have shifts and therian experiences. But therianthropy is not the umbrella term of kith. But the two still go together in harmony.)
I could probably list more reasons but it is 4am now so I think I better sleep before I regret writing more.
Quote:In my experiences, many of the otherkin I've met are no different in their experiences than things therians go through.
So again.. you mean therians? (or theriomythics if they prefer)
Quote:Sort of like how lemons and oranges are both fruit. Both are fruit, but slightly different. There are some differences, obviously, but not enough to separate the two groups.
I'd personally prefer to say they're like fruit and vegetables. Both are eatable, often taste about the same, are prepared often in simular ways and eaten by the same persons. They even may have simular shapes and colours. But they're different things.
Within both, you have different fruit. And different vegetables. (aka gryphons and elves in fruit aka otherkin, and wolves and instinct-dragons or rabbits and coyotes in vegetables aka therians)
I wouldn't start calling an apple a vegetable or a carrot a fruit.. Biologists will likely disagree that their core is not quiet the same. Even if they look simular.
But, that may be our personal ways of viewing experiences
And maybe they're So mixed, it's just a big smoothie and trying to put everything in boxes like this just ins't realistic..
maybe even more of a reason to just let people chose and be whatever they feel is right. Rather than removing the options and lumping all boxes together into one big box that no one can truely associate with?
Quote:Therians are a type of otherkin and always have been.
*therians haven't been a type of otherkin for the first 22 years of this community until some person thought to know better in 2015 and changed everytthing around
Goodnight, hopefully I didn't come of attack. I rather mean to be straight forward than attacking. I mean well, and this is my Personal take on the discussion. Disagreement is normal.