Why I think people are therians (opinion)

Hi,

My experience of therianthropy has no shifting, but just being merged with my wolf theriotype, not completely human nor completely animal. My only kind of "shift" were my dream shifts.

I used to think I got them because they were memories of a previous life, but being an atheist I eventually realised that believing in reincarnation was not required to explain the experience... I could simply have been dreaming what wolf-humans dream.

(2021-08-31 22:32)DustWolf Wrote:  Personally when I first encountered therianthropy, I was put in touch with people who believed in things like reincarnation. I am sure this is the same story for every therian out there, even today. I came to accept that I had to have been a wolf in my previous life, because I was a therian and that's just how everyone thought of this stuff.

But over the years I've found out that the reincarnation theory really does not make sense to me. I had wolf dream-shifts that I thought were memories from a previous life. But what made a lot more sense to me was that they are simply dreams of a wolf in the body of a human. I dream of running free with my wolf brother. I dream of discovering my pups in a den. I dream of a live juicy fresh kill. And I dream of how I would die as a wolf. To dream is synonymous with to wish for, and for a wolf imprisoned in the body of a human, those wishes make sense.

So... basically I don't believe I was reincarnated from a wolf, that my therianthropy has anything to do with reincarnation, and I don't really believe in reincarnation itself either.

LP,
Dusty

Personally, I have no idea if reincarnation or past lives are real or if I fully believe in them or if it's my wishful thinking. Either way I don't mind having no answer to why I am the way I am? I have no idea if me being a Therian is wishful thinking of wanting safety in something I am not, or a grass is greener kind of scenario/body dysphoria taken to an all time high. I dunno but at the end of the day I'm here, I feel like this and I'm not sure why and that's okay with me.

That's kind of my two cents.

Reincarnation and past lives do not fit that. Reincarnation works (according to Eastern traditions) in a certain way. It is not very likely that the animal will incarnate in humans immediately afterwards. I'm sorry I might cause doubts to someone. But just find out more about past lives.

Then I still don't know why we identify as that animal when it comes to past lives. It would then blend into current life. And that sounds like a naive idea to me. I just have a lot of doubts about this theory when I think about it more. Of course I don't take it from anyone.

I'll be happy to discuss why you think it's a past life - where you take that assurance. And I'm sorry if something isn't very understandable. I used a translator

(2022-05-07 3:15)Liatha Wrote:  Reincarnation and past lives do not fit that. Reincarnation works (according to Eastern traditions) in a certain way. It is not very likely that the animal will incarnate in humans immediately afterwards. I'm sorry I might cause doubts to someone. But just find out more about past lives.

So we talked about this on Discord some time ago, but to explain what @Liatha is saying here. Eastern traditions say that what you reincarnate as, depends on your "good deeds for the community" (simplified) in your previous life. Since animals live by instinct and cannot choose to do good deeds for the community, it doesn't seem possible for an animal (below on the scale) to reincarnate as a human (above on the scale).

Other people in our conversation, like @Li-lan have argued that what "reincarnation" is (aka "being born again in another body" rather than "reincarnation" the religious concept), is not owned by any religious group and therefore what the Eastern traditions say about it does not matter.

Thinking about it now, I also find myself wondering, since I believe animals can make choices in their lives: Perhaps it's possible for animals to do "good deeds for the community" (dharma). I mean outside of pets attending religious duties with their owners. Could a dog in what she does for her family be considered to engage in dharma?

LP,
Dusty

(2022-05-07 6:45)DustWolf Wrote:  So we talked about this on Discord some time ago, but to explain what @Liatha is saying here. Eastern traditions say that what you reincarnate as, depends on your "good deeds for the community" (simplified) in your previous life. Since animals live by instinct and cannot choose to do good deeds for the community, it doesn't seem possible for an animal (below on the scale) to reincarnate as a human (above on the scale).

Other people in our conversation, like @Li-lan have argued that what "reincarnation" is (aka "being born again in another body" rather than "reincarnation" the religious concept), is not owned by any religious group and therefore what the Eastern traditions say about it does not matter.

Thinking about it now, I also find myself wondering, since I believe animals can make choices in their lives: Perhaps it's possible for animals to do "good deeds for the community" (dharma). I mean outside of pets attending religious duties with their owners. Could a dog in what she does for her family be considered to engage in dharma?

Personally I think Dharma, Karma and all other such ideas about there being some universal "good credit" is a bunch of made up BS. I think it's a staple or nearly every religion (Christian heaven vs hell, Wiccan Law of Three, etc) as a control mechanism for the populous. I (creator of the religion) want you to behave a certain way, so god, the universe, whatever higher power will reward you if you do and punish you if you don't.
Furthermore I think the idea of their being a scale where human is at the top or a "reward" for doing good things is laughable. I don't think human is "better" than being a different animal. Sounds like something humans would make up because we think we're special.
So that's why I don't attach any Eastern religious beliefs around reincarnation to the concept. I don't have an issue if people choose to practice a religion, but the way I see it there's no value in the anthropocentric ideology often taught along with reincarnation. You can believe in a concept like heaven without being a Christian either.

My personal beliefs around it is that we get to choose to incarnate and have this physical experience in these bodies. And the reason we're here is simply to be alive. I'm sure certain souls have some goal from their life. Something to learn, or maybe something to teach. It feels like humans have this sense of need for a higher purpose, some goal to chase down, so I often see a lot of other aspects of religion as fulfilling that.

But answering your question Dust, I would personally say yes. A dog, a wolf any animal. I think it's a false idea that an animal can't have free will. Just because you have stronger instructs driving you and less executive functioning doesn't mean there's not free will in your decisions. It's not like instincts don't control human decision making sometimes.
Although you have to wonder with certain animals like lizards who aren't social at all, how one would ever "move up" that hypothetical ladder towards being human.

I will say that I feel that reincarnation is real. This planet we live on, the universe we existed in, everything is renewed, nothing new is made, nothing old is destroyed. Why can it not be for us. We may be different things, beings or existences but in the end we are no different than the dirt under foot, the fungi on a tree, the animalistic urges of a cat, the sky crying. We are the universe the universe is us. It may sound quite spiritual but to me it just is. It makes logical sense to me. I think yes it can affect your psychology and that it also validates those who have no recollection and those who do. Just because you don't remember or do at the end of the day you are still here. Nature chose this moment and as lucky or unlucky it has made you this is the body you have. That may be why we have disconnect to our human bodies outside of traumas or conditions.

This is all an opinion I may be wrong I may be right who knows, this is just my perspective

I think that there are 2 causes of therianthropy with cause like trauma and adaptations due to environmental factors in childhood (e.g being raised around animals) but then stuff like past lives on the other hand. I belive in a mixture of both myself and that people with or without past lives can be therians.

(2022-05-07 6:45)DustWolf Wrote:  

(2022-05-07 3:15)Liatha Wrote:  Reincarnation and past lives do not fit that. Reincarnation works (according to Eastern traditions) in a certain way. It is not very likely that the animal will incarnate in humans immediately afterwards. I'm sorry I might cause doubts to someone. But just find out more about past lives.

So we talked about this on Discord some time ago, but to explain what @Liatha is saying here. Eastern traditions say that what you reincarnate as, depends on your "good deeds for the community" (simplified) in your previous life. Since animals live by instinct and cannot choose to do good deeds for the community, it doesn't seem possible for an animal (below on the scale) to reincarnate as a human (above on the scale).

Other people in our conversation, like @Li-lan have argued that what "reincarnation" is (aka "being born again in another body" rather than "reincarnation" the religious concept), is not owned by any religious group and therefore what the Eastern traditions say about it does not matter.

Thinking about it now, I also find myself wondering, since I believe animals can make choices in their lives: Perhaps it's possible for animals to do "good deeds for the community" (dharma). I mean outside of pets attending religious duties with their owners. Could a dog in what she does for her family be considered to engage in dharma?

LP,
Dusty

So yes, Considering the fact that reincarnation requires good deeds for the community, we could not have been reincarnated from animals to humans unless we somehow do good deeds as an animal with carnal instincts.
But, I've been doing some research after being intrigued by this subject.
When you research certain types of reincarnation, they tell you different things, and the one with your definition is normally considered to be for humans.
If you begin to dig into reincarnation with animals, you find a bunch of stuff related again, to karma, with no research. This is a bit hard to prove with citation, but after looking for a while, I've found that there are a lot of different theories, and this is the most backed up one.
As a soul, you are a contentiousness, without a mind or body. You are a spirit. Or, an "atma". With this in mind, you would have the want to become or think something like something else.
With the thought of reincarnation in mind, if you were to want to live the life of an animal, you would become the animal.
Your soul would become a resident inside the body and mind.
Once you die, you would go back, your continuousness freed from the bounds of a certain mind's structures.
As a soul again, you would look back at yourself, and be ready to become another body. You would be judged yes, but not by the same boundaries.
In Saṃsāra, or the resurrection cycle, you are judged by karma.
A person with better deeds done has the chance of being reincarnated as a higher being, with a human being the highest being considered.
But if you were to judge a human considered to a cat, you would find that the human would be in a more varied judging scale.
The human has a mind with practically no boundaries. A cat relies on instincts, as you said.
If you were to judge both on the same scale, it would always be nearly impossible for the cat to get high karma. The human could choose.
According to the research I've done, there is a Karma scale, due to the restrictions given to animals, including not having the gift of full free will, and not fully knowing the consequences.
So an animal is judged by it's capacities.

There is another theory though. One theory is that the life of an animal is paying for your past karma. It simply means that if you had a bad past life, you pay for it in an animal life. After that, your karma is reset and you live another life as a human. This one is a lot less researched, and seems a bit harder to prove, but it is a theory.

Just a quick thing I wanted to say, sorry if I offended anyone by posting this. I just wanted to do some research on a couple common theories.

(2022-05-07 6:45)DustWolf Wrote:  Thinking about it now, I also find myself wondering, since I believe animals can make choices in their lives: Perhaps it's possible for animals to do "good deeds for the community" (dharma). I mean outside of pets attending religious duties with their owners. Could a dog in what she does for her family be considered to engage in dharma?

Old post, but an interesting topic. There's a reason "all dogs go to heaven" is a common saying..

To the best of my knowledge, yes animals are thought to engage in dharma as they are viewed as sentient and capable of willful/mindful acts.

A few examples that I think support this:
There's stories in Japanese Buddhist mythology of animals engaging in dharma and becoming monks, and the endpoint of foxes in Japanese and Chinese mythology is to ascend to heaven through spiritual cultivation, which I believe represents liberation from Samsara (the cycle of rebirth). Apparently Thai Buddhism has stories of cats reaching states of enlightenment, as well. Religious Buddhist depictions also frequently feature animal symbols and deities with animal features that are representative of traits beneficial to the Noble Eight-Fold Path (way of living that leads to liberation from Samsara).

In Chinese Buddhism, Animals were said to aid the Bodhisattva Guanyin with her chores due to her innate goodness, suggesting those animals were capable of recognizing the Buddhist concept of "good" and chose to engage with its furtherance. This could be viewed as an analogue to what Gautama(Buddha) taught during his life, and an example of the innateness of "Buddha Nature" in animals.

Animals are also depicted as being able to engage in acts that bestow negative karma or go against dharma:
I would argue that the stories from Japan depicting pets who transform into "evil" monsters after abuse by humans was due to the introduction of hatred and attachment into creatures that formerly had none, causing them to fall away from the path to Nirvana as they seek retribution in a form those humans feared.

Some stories depict Nekomata (a type of cat yokai) as being able to raise the dead, which I believe could be viewed as representing a violation of the normal cycle of death and rebirth similar to how reanimation is viewed elsewhere. This might suggest the ability to engage with dharma negatively, and showing they are also capable of acts that are not in accordance with dharma. This suggests to me that animals are capable of making the choices required to reach Nirvana, even if they do not understand the path itself. Thus, they are pure beings that follow dharma instinctively, unless interfered with.