Self awareness and introspection- Why you might not be therian/kin

(2024-03-08 20:15)StormyPica Wrote:  I agree mostly. But honestly I am a little tired of having to tell everyone that I don't care if it's a phase (had to do this with non-related stuff a lot). If it is, it is. If it's not, it's not. I'm not harming anyone by putting a name to the experiences I've had my whole life, and I wouldn't be harming anyone if I grew out of it. A phase isn't less real than or inferior to a non-phase.

I think being comfortable with questioning is great, but I think many jump to the conclusion that you must be faking if you're uncomfortable with questioning. For me, certain types of questioning can be extremely triggering (due to trauma around being interrogated about other aspects of my identity) and then my brain kind of stops working because it can't handle the stress, which makes it near impossible to give a coherent or sensical answer (which in turn leads to more questioning and stress). I've found that people on here have been pretty nice about it once they realized, but I'm still scared that people may think I'm faking due to my difficulty with answering questions.

As mentioned on the discord (posting here so that others can read as well), I'm not trying to imply that it potentially being a phase is bad. It's a part of growing and learning about the self too. My emphasis was on the importance of keeping an open mind that it -could- be a phase, or that our initial thoughts could be incorrect. It can be easy for someone to get excited about something and then tack it on to their identity quickly, only for it to not feel like it fits some time later. Some people feel cognitive dissonance for this, or even shame, so they latch on to it even harder.

(2024-03-08 20:47)DustWolf Wrote:  

(2024-03-08 20:15)StormyPica Wrote:  I agree mostly. But honestly I am a little tired of having to tell everyone that I don't care if it's a phase (had to do this with non-related stuff a lot). If it is, it is. If it's not, it's not. I'm not harming anyone by putting a name to the experiences I've had my whole life, and I wouldn't be harming anyone if I grew out of it. A phase isn't less real than or inferior to a non-phase.

The main site guide has a section about whether or not it's just a phase in it's page dedicated to parents of (potential) therians:
https://therian-guide.com/index.php/8-Parents

the Guide Wrote:Q: Is this just a phase?
A: It is common for young teens to explore who they are and where they belong in the world, through trying on different identities. Some try on a therian identity, but then move on.

A rare few however find that being Therian is something they've always been inside and is something that defines them. For them, this is more than just a phase.

I feel this is mostly accurate and how I would approach this topic.

LP,
Dusty

I agree with this approach, I'm just used to adults using "phase" in a demeaning way, or to make fun of someone. Or treating phases like they are not beneficial much of the time. (I personally believe they are essential for self-discovery and should not be discouraged).

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(2024-03-08 20:45)aaviiann Wrote:  

(2024-03-08 20:37)Bagera Wrote:  

(2024-03-08 20:32)aaviiann Wrote:  I strongly agree. I've only been in the community for about two years, but I'm still very able to pick up on the culture of "accept everyone, ask no questions".
Young pups tend to act as though asking questions is something offensive. An example; recently I had an otherhearted friend "awaken" as a therian, when they were asked why they believed this, they simply said "I've been having more shifts than normal." Any further questioning was shut-down as being mean and judgemental.
I wish there was more we could do to normalize asking questions and inspire introspection in people new to the community, but I'm not even sure how you'd start without just being called a dickhead.

The more people do it, the more normalized it becomes. It was once this way and it can become so again. Question people, but try to do it in the spirit of inquiry and not judgement. If people can't handle that, let them think you're a dick. This community is a place for education and self exploration. If people don't want to use it for its intended purpose, they can leave for all I care.

Of course; I'm just worried that pups outside of TG will refuse questions and simply block instead. The internet has taught them to be sensitive, so that is what the majority of them will do.

I little bit off topic, but I genuinely hate how sensitive certain parts of the internet (especially parts geared towards pups) are. It infuriates me, I was in one of those spaces for a couple years and everyone lacked critical thinking and just had the same arguments over and over again. Plus if I had any questions, or was confused (in a "please help me understand better" way), I'd be yelled at for being "bigoted".

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I love learning, but learning was shamed there, and anything but immediate acceptance without questioning at all was deemed bigoted.

(2024-03-08 20:51)StormyPica Wrote:  

(2024-03-08 20:47)DustWolf Wrote:  

(2024-03-08 20:15)StormyPica Wrote:  I agree mostly. But honestly I am a little tired of having to tell everyone that I don't care if it's a phase (had to do this with non-related stuff a lot). If it is, it is. If it's not, it's not. I'm not harming anyone by putting a name to the experiences I've had my whole life, and I wouldn't be harming anyone if I grew out of it. A phase isn't less real than or inferior to a non-phase.

The main site guide has a section about whether or not it's just a phase in it's page dedicated to parents of (potential) therians:
https://therian-guide.com/index.php/8-Parents

the Guide Wrote:Q: Is this just a phase?
A: It is common for young teens to explore who they are and where they belong in the world, through trying on different identities. Some try on a therian identity, but then move on.

A rare few however find that being Therian is something they've always been inside and is something that defines them. For them, this is more than just a phase.

I feel this is mostly accurate and how I would approach this topic.

LP,
Dusty

I agree with this approach, I'm just used to adults using "phase" in a demeaning way, or to make fun of someone. Or treating phases like they are not beneficial much of the time. (I personally believe they are essential for self-discovery and should not be discouraged).

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(2024-03-08 20:45)aaviiann Wrote:  

(2024-03-08 20:37)Bagera Wrote:  

(2024-03-08 20:32)aaviiann Wrote:  I strongly agree. I've only been in the community for about two years, but I'm still very able to pick up on the culture of "accept everyone, ask no questions".
Young pups tend to act as though asking questions is something offensive. An example; recently I had an otherhearted friend "awaken" as a therian, when they were asked why they believed this, they simply said "I've been having more shifts than normal." Any further questioning was shut-down as being mean and judgemental.
I wish there was more we could do to normalize asking questions and inspire introspection in people new to the community, but I'm not even sure how you'd start without just being called a dickhead.

The more people do it, the more normalized it becomes. It was once this way and it can become so again. Question people, but try to do it in the spirit of inquiry and not judgement. If people can't handle that, let them think you're a dick. This community is a place for education and self exploration. If people don't want to use it for its intended purpose, they can leave for all I care.

Of course; I'm just worried that pups outside of TG will refuse questions and simply block instead. The internet has taught them to be sensitive, so that is what the majority of them will do.

I little bit off topic, but I genuinely hate how sensitive certain parts of the internet (especially parts geared towards pups) are. It infuriates me, I was in one of those spaces for a couple years and everyone lacked critical thinking and just had the same arguments over and over again. Plus if I had any questions, or was confused (in a "please help me understand better" way), I'd be yelled at for being "bigoted".

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I love learning, but learning was shamed there, and anything but immediate acceptance without questioning at all was deemed bigoted.

Agreed. When acceptance and validation is prioritized over logical thinking and genuine questions/validation, it ends up being less of a safe space and more of an echo chamber.

(2024-03-08 20:17)TherianRose Wrote:  I'd also like to highlight that relating to aspects of an animal or character does not a theriotype make. Characters especially are written with the goal of getting the audience to see themselves in that person - they're often exaggerated and can even be stereotypical, and wouldn't hold up well outside of their specific world's circumstances.

I absolutely understand it can feel like you are or want to be like someone. I've had those feelings as well! But please, be cautious. Don't rush to cast aside what makes you unique to become more like what you think you should be. I buried parts of myself that I'm still learning to accept, and while I'm glad I'm able to work on that, I wish I had been kinder to myself sooner. Over time, you'll find comfort in being yourself instead of trying to emulate anyone else.

I think to understand what's going on here with the younger folk, we need to get into how they think and how we are different. So... at risk of doing a "hello fellow kids"... (Our younger members have recently reminded me that I am older than some of their parents, so excuse me while I struggle to understand your motivations. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

I think the younger generation is feeling the stress of the world we live in these days. It's made parental attention harder to come by and it's made the various social pressures insurmountable. The reason the pups seem to shy away from any kind of challenge (to their beliefs) is because they're used to arguments with adults being hopeless.

In addition, I think one of the differences we have, is that the younger generation... having grown up with more intellectual freedom when they were younger are more aware of their appearance. How they appear is important to them personally. So one of the common mistakes made is that their online presence, rather than being genuine, is carefully curated and controlled.


So, for those of you who are younger, we adults kinda frown upon your attempts to control your image, because:

1. Your image is not really important. Nobody is going to kick you off TG because you don't look therian enough, or something. Even if someone doesn't believe you're a therian, or disagrees with you, that's just their opinion and it won't change anything.

2. You trying to control your identity is selfish. Your identity is determined by society (example: "police officer" is an identity. You're not really a police officer if you say you are or if you force other people to call you that, you are a police officer if society recognises that this is your job). And so it's not up to you to control your identity or force others to validate it.


So, you've heard me say I want you to be honest with yourself a hundred times. This is basically what I mean. The key to understanding your therianthropy (which, along with helping others do the same, should be the main reason why you are on Therian Guide), is to try and understand your own experiences.

Not experiences you claim you have, or a carefully curated identity you have chosen for yourself and want others to validate. But your own actual therian experiences, if you have them. If you don't, you're not a therian, but it's okay you can stay here and keep your friends, nobody is going to be angry or think less of you.

Just please be genuine and honest with yourself.

LP,
Dusty

I might be coming at a bit of a different angle for this topic -given that I've been looking into the community for only ∼6 months, but one thing that almost put me off entirely from the community was the rampant lack of introspection.

I poked around a few other therian spaces before TG, and was told several times that even considering I could be a therian meant I fell into some sort of non-human category. That sort of logic made me extremely uncomfortable and I almost dropped the idea of being a therian completely. Thank goodness for the public TG boards that showed me some critical thinking was going into being a therian.

I've heard that the grilling in the community used to be quite intense, but there most certainly is some balance between asking questions ruthlessly and doing so in a way that encourages self-reflection. A community is meant to benefit the many, and that can only happen when individuals are truthful with themselves.

(2024-03-09 1:35)Phantom_Terrier Wrote:  I might be coming at a bit of a different angle for this topic -given that I've been looking into the community for only ∼6 months, but one thing that almost put me off entirely from the community was the rampant lack of introspection.

I poked around a few other therian spaces before TG, and was told several times that even considering I could be a therian meant I fell into some sort of non-human category. That sort of logic made me extremely uncomfortable and I almost dropped the idea of being a therian completely. Thank goodness for the public TG boards that showed me some critical thinking was going into being a therian.

I've heard that the grilling in the community used to be quite intense, but there most certainly is some balance between asking questions ruthlessly and doing so in a way that encourages self-reflection. A community is meant to benefit the many, and that can only happen when individuals are truthful with themselves.

I had a similar situation. Being a very literal person, I thought to myself “well obviously I’m human, that’s my species, I know that”, but I still felt like something was different. I’ve always felt too animalistic, too nature oriented, too unlike humans to fit in. But TG showed me to take a step back and really ask myself if I had any non-human behaviors or instincts. And I actually found that I do. And spiritual therianthropy isn’t much talked about outside of reincarnation, but on here I met some spiritual therians with different stories which helped me realize my spiritual “tie” to my home planet.

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And meeting shapeshifters and hearing their experiences was immensely helpful, I felt I didn’t relate to any non-shapeshifters because I was too fluid.

(2024-03-08 19:51)Bagera Wrote:  Many kids seem to latch on to types and change them on a whim. They collect them due to any experience they have, from simply relating to an animal, to feeling they have a shift a couple of times. The worst of it I've seen are people who collect fictional types, or systems, which back in the day were exceptionally rare to non existent.

I don't wholly blame children to latching onto things they relate to strongly, as that's what kids do in this period of their lives. And yes, you can relate to something so strongly that you feel like it's you. This is common in children and people who have issues of identity/not knowing who they are. It's especially telling if someone changes types frequently. But that doesn't mean that it's -you-. Characters are meant to be highly relatable, you do yourself a disservice to throw away who you are to take on the persona of someone else.

This is why questioning and introspection are necessary skills to be taught. Most of you will grow out of this (therianthropy/otherkin as a whole) by the time you reach adulthood because, and I know this may be upsetting to hear, it is a phase for most children. And again, there's nothing wrong with kids trying on different things to see what fits. That's part of growing up.

I think what really spurred me to post this though is that there's such a huge influx of people that fall into this that it becomes kind of nonsensical, and becomes difficult to exist in therian spaces anymore because any attempt at trying to question is met with hostility and fear. It's as if people are afraid to face themselves. I have seen many young members outright say that it makes them uncomfortable to question themselves/be questioned by others in this way. This isn't right, it's not healthy. The point of this community is education and growth, and you can't grow if you do not attempt to know yourselves truly.

I wish more people talked about this.

As a child therian, it's frustrating to see so many young therians immediately jumping to conclusions on theriotypes and assuming that if they feel this way now, they automatically will feel this way for the rest of their life. I have had to explain this to multiple people before. Yes, I identify as a therian because it fits my experiences. But do I think I will still identify as a therian when I'm old and gray? Who knows. So many kids have phases like this, so many people were certain that they were therians when it turned out that they weren't, there's no real way to tell how I'll feel in 4 years when I'm a legal adult, and how I'll feel for the rest of my life. Just because I've felt like this for the entire beginning of my life and have been in the community for two years doesn't mean that it still couldn't turn out to just be a phase or something.
I often find myself taking a step back to look at my experiences and asking myself questions about how I feel to check to see if I'm a therian or if a theriotype I'm questioning really fits me. I've seen people who decide that they're a red fox therian because they had a dream where they were a red fox. Sure, a red fox therian might have a dream about being a red fox, but solely basing your identity on dreams you've had, no offense, is not a very good way to tell.

I could write SO MUCH MORE on this topic but I think I need to cut myself off here before I accidentally write a whole entire book on here lol.

I honestly believe anyone who feels less validated or threatened by questioning (note I will be distinguishing between "questioning" and "grilling" here) needs to take a moment and ask themselves why they are upset. Are they simply upset because it is uncomfortable or do they feel like they must prove something. If the answer is you feel you need to prove something then you should probably (to be blunt) step away. If you are living your truth and what you actually believe there is nothing that needs proving to you or anyone, the only proof needed is that you are being honest with yourself and that includes admitting when you were wrong or do not know. If you feel uncomfortable you need to ask yourself why it feels uncomfortable. Are you uncomfortable because you feel challenged? Then see about proving. Are you uncomfortable because you are unsure of your conclusion? Good! We are talking about questions on identity here and that is going to be, to some degree, necessarily uncomfortable territory. You will be digging into your own thoughts, actions, psyche, etc. very deeply and it is highly unlikely you will like everything you find, but that is also part of the point! Part of this journey is learning to accept yourself for who you are, perfections and imperfections being of equal value, and only then will you be able to be truly honest about yourself. So answer any questions that may be asked truthfully and honestly even if the answer makes you uncomfortable or you just simply do not know. But, and this is a big one, understand people are not required to believe you or take your answers at face value. It is entirely possible to not believe what a person says but still respect what they believe. And this is the crux of questioning, being mindful and respectful of the person on the other end, and grilling, digging with no regard for the other. We are here as a community to learn and grow and to do so there will need to be some necessary adversity for all of us. I, like many others, miss the spirit of questioning but do not miss the grilling so in spirit of this I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. I have created a thread here where I invite everyone, especially the younger members, to see exactly what I have been saying.

(2024-03-10 8:31)Siris Wrote:  I honestly believe anyone who feels less validated or threatened by questioning (note I will be distinguishing between "questioning" and "grilling" here) needs to take a moment and ask themselves why they are upset. Are they simply upset because it is uncomfortable or do they feel like they must prove something. If the answer is you feel you need to prove something then you should probably (to be blunt) step away. If you are living your truth and what you actually believe there is nothing that needs proving to you or anyone, the only proof needed is that you are being honest with yourself and that includes admitting when you were wrong or do not know. If you feel uncomfortable you need to ask yourself why it feels uncomfortable. Are you uncomfortable because you feel challenged?

While I accept this was probably your point, I just wanted to point out that as a "psychological" therian, who has known about his therianthropy for 25+ years as well, I was at no point confident about my therianthropy.

I think that the text above could be misconstrued as to mean that to be a therian, you need to be confident that you are living your truth, but you know... that's not how it works.

Back in the day when I discovered my therianthropy on AHWw, it was very normal for the existing community to be exceedingly skeptical about whether or not you were really a therian. Like today, they also got a bunch of newcomers all claiming to be wolves and mostly just sounding like out of control teenagers. And there I was, a wolf therian and teenage human.

I mean yes, I was picked at by people who enjoyed feeling control over others and was seriously affected (I was afraid they were somehow going to take away the friends I have made with other young people who thought they might be wolf therians there) and I don't think that was really something you'd want to allow today. But, what I wanted to say is that for years I never felt like if someone asked me to prove my therianthropy, that I could.

I come from a science-minded family, as a kid at dinner we'd have debates and challenge each other critically. I never dared talk about therianthropy in front of them. But the thing is, I knew if I tried having a debate like that about therianthropy, I couldn't prove that I was one. I couldn't prove that this wasn't really just all in my head or a phase or something.

It was only several years later, that I became comfortable with my therianthropy, when I came to the conclusion that no matter how therianthropy was explained away, my therian experiences would never change.


So... I think expecting our pups to be comfortable in their beliefs and "living their truth", when we know they'd had less than a decade of trying to understand what they feel, is a bit of a stretch.

If you challenged me about my therianthropy some years ago, before I became comfortable with the idea, I'd be just as offended as the next guy.

LP,
Dusty

(2024-03-10 10:53)DustWolf Wrote:  

(2024-03-10 8:31)Siris Wrote:  I honestly believe anyone who feels less validated or threatened by questioning (note I will be distinguishing between "questioning" and "grilling" here) needs to take a moment and ask themselves why they are upset. Are they simply upset because it is uncomfortable or do they feel like they must prove something. If the answer is you feel you need to prove something then you should probably (to be blunt) step away. If you are living your truth and what you actually believe there is nothing that needs proving to you or anyone, the only proof needed is that you are being honest with yourself and that includes admitting when you were wrong or do not know. If you feel uncomfortable you need to ask yourself why it feels uncomfortable. Are you uncomfortable because you feel challenged?

While I accept this was probably your point, I just wanted to point out that as a "psychological" therian, who has known about his therianthropy for 25+ years as well, I was at no point confident about my therianthropy.

I think that the text above could be misconstrued as to mean that to be a therian, you need to be confident that you are living your truth, but you know... that's not how it works.

Back in the day when I discovered my therianthropy on AHWw, it was very normal for the existing community to be exceedingly skeptical about whether or not you were really a therian. Like today, they also got a bunch of newcomers all claiming to be wolves and mostly just sounding like out of control teenagers. And there I was, a wolf therian and teenage human.

I mean yes, I was picked at by people who enjoyed feeling control over others and was seriously affected (I was afraid they were somehow going to take away the friends I have made with other young people who thought they might be wolf therians there) and I don't think that was really something you'd want to allow today. But, what I wanted to say is that for years I never felt like if someone asked me to prove my therianthropy, that I could.

I come from a science-minded family, as a kid at dinner we'd have debates and challenge each other critically. I never dared talk about therianthropy in front of them. But the thing is, I knew if I tried having a debate like that about therianthropy, I couldn't prove that I was one. I couldn't prove that this wasn't really just all in my head or a phase or something.

It was only several years later, that I became comfortable with my therianthropy, when I came to the conclusion that no matter how therianthropy was explained away, my therian experiences would never change.


So... I think expecting our pups to be comfortable in their beliefs and "living their truth", when we know they'd had less than a decade of trying to understand what they feel, is a bit of a stretch.

If you challenged me about my therianthropy some years ago, before I became comfortable with the idea, I'd be just as offended as the next guy.

LP,
Dusty

Absolutely right Dusty and it is poorly worded, my mistake for posting at 4am when I can't sleep. What ibwas trying to get at is truth will speak for itself and one should not be afraid of seeking it. Basically if there is a reason you are not confident in that truth then you should question it and follow where it will lead. Ultimately you will either find validation and become confident in it or new information will come to light and you will adjust your ideas to be more true. The comment was directed at building to confidence not having it from the outset and I apologize for it not being worded better.