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The Realities of P-Shifting
coffeebear
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Post: #1
The Realities of P-Shifting
The nature of our physical reality is such that things are predictable, measurable, and subject to governing forces or "laws" that we may not yet fully comprehend, but which still enforce predictable outcomes. Massless particles travels at a certain speed, matter exerts a predictable gravitational field, chemicals react in expected manners, et cetera and so on. Yet there persists a vocal minority within the therian community which insists on pushing physical shifting as a reasonable possibility, despite being clearly unreasonable and without regard for the harm such an idea can cause.

Unreasonable
From a Scientific Point of View

While many of the scientific reasons physical shifting is impossible would normally get into a great deal of background information, much of that is excluded here for brevity's sake.

First, an individual's DNA is highly regulated by the body. While acquired mutations can develop in a person later in life, these instances are localized to relatively small groups of cells, though they can metastasize and spread throughout the body. A biological p-shift would first require every cell in a person's body to flawlessly mutate from human to some other species - even though our cellular structure keeps no record of what the DNA of other species actually looks like. If it did, therianthropy could be confirmed with simple blood testing.

Second, DNA is just a blueprint - After the body is built and grown, altering the blueprint does not alter someone's physical structure. This is the same concept as altering printed blueprints after a building has been constructed; writing new things on a piece of paper does not automatically make those changes to the 20 storey building the paper describes. This means that the shape, density, and composition of bones must be altered to match the new form, and muscles, organs, and tissues must undergo the same process. In some cases, these structures may be wholly lost, or must be be fabricated out of nothingness. Moreso, matter must be either created or drawn in from some source, or lost to somewhere, as there would be a difference in weight and mass before and after such a transformation.

Third, any such process like this would either take a devastatingly long time to be completed, so much so that eating and breathing would have to cease for such a length of time, the individual would die before the transition was complete, OR, any quick or instantaneous process would generate so much pain and heat as to be equally lethal. There is, in short, no way to survive such a process, even if the first two requirements above were somehow satisfied. The life cycle of moths, butterflies, and the like already take these structural changes into account - their DNA and their cellular structure prepare for these changes from the earliest point in those creatures' lives. The same is not true for humans.

Fourth, the quantity and species of bacteria and fungi in our bodies do not match those qualities of other species - so even if the human body could somehow {1: accomplish} and {2: survive} the transformation, the microbiome of the body would have to undergo the same sort of species-transformation, mass gain/loss, and energy expenditures as the host. If it's impossible once, it's even more impossible that such an event might happen thousands of billions of times at a single, localized point in the universe.

Consider the time, effort, and calories required of someone starting a training routine to become a bodybuilder or a marathon runner. The relatively minute changes their bodies go through, when compared to something as drastic as a transition from one species to another, are incredible enough as to be impossible to instantly accomplish. How much more impossible a physical shift would be is staggering.

From a Magical Point of View

First, if it could happen, it would happen. Psychic powers, telekenesis, astral travel, remote viewing... these so-called "supernatural phenomena" have been thoroughly debunked time and time again. James Randi and his Educational Foundation is a notable skeptic who has made a career out of proving such absurd claims to be false. There are 27 active prizes and 14 defunct ones currently listed on Wikipedia - all unclaimed - for proof of the paranormal. While the abilities I list here obviously don't include physical shifting, we must admit that therianthropy and our own related group of paranormal believers are not nearly as mainstream or recognizable as ESP, astral travel, out of body experiences, or the like. Extrapolating from the lack of mainstream supernatural abilities, the notable absence of any proof of physical shifting abilities, and it becomes obvious that such metaphysical abilities are equally non-existent.

Second, historic claims or stories about shapeshifters serve the same purpose as those claims in a more modern setting - to convince the gullible of an individual's inherent powers, with the end goal of controlling, manipulating, or defrauding the audience. These claims arise primarily from ego and narcissism, and there are always reasons that proof can never be provided - the audience is required to take the claims on faith and trust alone. Either the "disbelief" of the audience is interfering with an in-person demonstration, the alignment of ethereal energies is unfavorable, or the batteries in the camera died, there is always some convenient excuse as to why claims of shapeshifting or physical transformation can never be legitimately verified. There is no legitimate reason why magic or the supernatural would have worked centuries ago, but not now. Claims of "lost knowledge" or mistranslations of ancient texts leading to the loss of the correct methods or reagents is again claimed in order to lead along a gullible audience.

Third, there is no consensus regarding which supreme being or belief system would be responsible for these sorts of abilities. Rather, the claims all tend to follow a familiar pattern back to pagan roots, but specifics are obviously unavailable, or they conflict with other descriptions provided by various claimants. Again, the goal here has always been to prey on the gullibility of an audience by exploiting the lack of certainty in claims surrounding the mysterious nature of the paranormal. It stands to reason that if one entity could facilitate a physical transformation, another could hinder it, and so again, because of differences in the pantheon of service providers, proof is predictably unattainable.


Potential Harm

As I touched on above, those who claim to have the ability or to be in possession of such secret knowledge almost always have ulterior motives. "Packs" are formed in which one or a few "elite" members claim to have the ability to physically transform, and newer members are controlled and manipulated as they seek to obtain these abilities as well. Personal gain is another motive, as funding is required for "research," but the control and manipulation of others seems to be the primary goal.

People prey on the desire for power, the desire to be in a physical form we (as therians) might find more appealing or comfortable, or simply the desire to have followers. Such paranormal abilities would allow the select few to exercise such power over others, and by stringing along those desperate enough to believe and pursue, can lead people into cult-like social structures, extreme debt, or merely the abandonment of self in service to an out of control ego.

As the hope of being able to physically transform is always just out of reach, hope is kept alive, to an obsessive degree, and the victim slides into despair over the inability to obtain this power that is touted as real. Thus, the cycle of hope, despair, and depression carries on, preventing the individual from moving on with their life into reality and a more promising future.

Entertaining "research" or "potential methods" of attaining physical transformation only serve to bolster claims of those would exploit others. For the reasons mentioned above, belief in the ability to physically transform is extremely unreasonable and for all intents and purposes, entirely impossible. Fostering these beliefs in others does them no service, and furthermore, if we ever want therianthropy to be taken seriously in the larger framework of human society, such beliefs need to be kept in check, or we all risk being taken as seriously as a late night 1-900 psycic hotline.

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2018-11-12 20:48
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Post: #2
RE: The Realities of P-Shifting
Hello everybody,

I am wrapping up and old issue that remained open on these forums. If there are people in the audience who believe p-shifting is possible and have visited this thread because they wish to see if anyone here has figured out how to unlock the secret on how to physically transform into an animal: Welcome! This thread is here for you!

As coffee so eloquently put it in this post, but perhaps lacking the due emphasis:

IF SOMEONE HAS TOLD YOU THAT YOU CAN PHYSICALLY TRANSFORM YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED.

People say those sorts of things out of a desire to feel special, better than other people and in order to control and manipulate people like you.

If you opt not to take our word for it, sure. What you believe is ultimately up to you. However given the amount of drama discussing this subject always entails, discussing p-shifting is no longer allowed on this forum.

I am therefore sealing off this thread as the last on this particular topic and adding the rule. This thread remains, as said, in the hopes that it may help bring those few who have been deceived, back into the real world.

LP,
Dusty

Most problems are man-made.

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(This post was last modified: 2019-01-25 23:18 by DustWolf.)
2019-01-25 23:15
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DustWolf
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Post: #3
RE: The Realities of P-Shifting
Hello,

Given the rule changes regarding p-shifting, I have unlocked this thread if anyone has anything to add.

Rule 20 Wrote:Claiming that you have p-shifted or claiming to have a recipe to enable one to p-shift is not allowed.

(2020-07-25 9:18)DustWolf Wrote:  People who claim to have p-shifted or bi-location-shifted are usually people experiencing psychosis who need medical attention and not Internet forum attention.

Offering recipes to enable p-shifting is something often used to manipulate and control people who are Therians, because obviously if someone knew how to do it, we'd give anything to learn. And even though we might be sceptical, many would probably take a chance and end up in someone's nasty trap.

Therefore, to ensure basic health and safety, making these claims will lead to bans.

Joke recipes are of course allowed!

Keep in mind however that any posts arguing why TG rules are wrong will be removed.

LP,
Dusty

Most problems are man-made.

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(This post was last modified: 2020-08-23 12:17 by DustWolf.)
2020-08-23 12:12
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Post: #4
RE: The Realities of P-Shifting
I think it's worthwhile to update this post with a bit of math and science from previous conversations.

==========

If you're curious about the energy requirements, so let's do some math. Note that the numbers I'll be using were obtained through simple web searches.

Assumptions and notes:
  • Subject: 200lbs (90.72kg), 5' 10" (1.78m) adult male
  • Weight and surface area of the subject are the same before and after the process
  • Skeletal mass of the subject is the same before and after the process
  • Gut biome differences (roughly 3.9x10^13 bacteria) will not be addressed
  • 1000 calories = 1 Calorie or 1 kilocalorie (kcal); food calories are measured in kcals, so that is what we'll use here
  • Numbers in this document are rounded to the hundredth, but for precision, my calculations are not rounded

The human body is made up of the following percentages, by weight:
  • 60% Water (120lbs / 54.43kg)
  • 23% Soft tissue (46lbs / 20.87kg)
  • 15% Bone (30lbs / 13.61kg)
  • 2% Bacteria (4lbs / 1.81kg)

Peter Apell, from Chalmers University of Technology, did studies on how much energy is required by the body for healing wounds. This is quite a bit different from a full transformation, but reasonable research to start with, I think. He calculated the body requires about 20 kiloJoules (kJ) or 4.78kcal to grow a gram of new cells. One pound is 453.59g, so the 46lbs of soft tissue that would be "healed" would draw 417,302.80kJ, or 99,737.76kcal.

46lbs x 453.59g per pound = 20,865.14g of soft tissue
20,865.14g x 4.78kcal per gram = 99,737.76kcal

Furthermore, Apell calculated that healing for "a wound" would take around 10 days. Assuming his calculations were for the same "gram" of new cells, "healing" one gram at a time in our Subject would take 208,651.40 days, or 571.65 years (not accounting for leap years). Disruption of the entire body at once would destroy the lymphatic and circulatory systems needed to transfer the necessary nutrients and oxygen, as well as carry away dead cellular material and cell waste, resulting in death. It would also halt normal operation of the heart, brain, lungs, and other organs necessary for life, again resulting in death. Even if we assume the body could be in the process of reconfiguring 20 areas of soft body tissue at any given time, the process (not including the skeleton) would still require 10,432.57 days, or 28.58 years. Daily caloric intake for reconfiguration of soft tissue is negligible, only 9.56kcal per day.

20,865.14g x 10 days per gram = 208,551.40 days
208,651.40 days ÷ 365 days per year = 571.65 years (reconfiguring 1 area at a time)
571.65 years ÷ 20 concurrent repairs = 28.58 years
208,551.40 days ÷ 20 concurrent repairs = 10,427.57 days
99,737.76kcal ÷ 10,427.57 days = 9.56kcal/day

Remember, this is in addition to the calories required by the body to maintain the day-to-day metabolism - breathing, heart rate, brain activity, and so on. And let's not forget the energy input required to rearrange the physical lattice of calcium deposits that are the skeleton.

Exact numbers on kcal requirements for healing bone fractures seem to be less readily available, but the numbers can run as high as 4000kcal per day (above and beyond the requirements for normal, everyday bodily functions) for 6-12 weeks for "multiple fractures" while the initial fractures heal, followed by an additional 1-2000kcal per day for an additional 12-18 weeks as the now rejoined bone continues to rebuild its structural integrity, though full healing may take as long as 1 year from the initial injury.

Because the surface area of the skeletal system is approximately the same as the surface area of our 200lbs, 5' 10" individual, this means the surface area of bone is approximately 3,250in² (8,255cm²). A clean break to a 1" diameter (2.54cm) bone affects the following areas: calculating for a .08" (0.20cm) "break", the affected surface area is 0.25in² (1.60cm²) with a volume of 0.06in³ (1.01cm³).

Formulae:
  • Area of a rectangle: l*w
  • Circumference of a circle: 2πr
  • Volume of a cylinder: πr²h
  • Density: m ÷ v
  • Note that surface area and volume measurements can not be converted from Standard to Metric by multiplying by 2.54

Circumference of the "break" = 2π(0.50") = 3.14"
External surface area of the "break" = 3.14" x 0.08" = 0.25in²
Volume of the "break" = π(0.5²)(0.08) = 0.06in³

It must be noted that bone density varies over the course of one's life, and males and females have different bone densities. Bone density can also vary within a single individual, with larger bones like those in the arms and legs being stronger and denser than bones in the fingers or the ears. As such, the following calculations are heavily approximated. The average bone density of a healthy 30yo male is around 1.07oz/in³ (1.85g/cm³). Our Subject has 30lbs or 480oz (13.61kg or 13,610g) of bone. This means that for the initial 6-12 week period, healing 0.06in³ of bone requires 168,000 - 336,000kcal, followed by 126,000 - 189,000kcal (or more) for the remainder of the healing process - for a single fracture. The initial healing of the entire skeleton then requires anywhere from 1.26x10^9 to 2.51x10^9 kcal, followed by an additional 9.42x10^8 to 1.41x10^9 kcal.

Kcal for a single fracture (0.06in³ (1.01cm³)):
Initial repairs:
4,000kcal x 42 days = 168,000kcal
4,000kcal x 84 days = 336,000kcal
For further repairs:
1,500kcal x 84 days = 126,000kcal
1,500kcal x 126 days = 189,000kcal

Kcal for the entire skeleton:
Volume of the entire skeleton: 480oz ÷ 1.07oz/in³ = 448.60in³ (7,356.76cm³)
448.60in³ ÷ 0.06in³ = 7,476.67 total "fractures" to be "repaired"
Initial repairs:
7,476.67 x 168,000kcal = 1,256,074,766.36kcal
7,476.67 x 336,000kcal = 2,512,149,532.71kcal
For further repairs:
7,476.67 x 126,000kcal = 942,056,074.77kcal
7,476.67 x 189,000kcal = 1,413,084,112.15kcal

Just like soft tissue, all of these adjustments can't be made at once. Assuming five "repairs" at a time are conducted, the Subject's daily caloric intake, excluding calories required for basic functions, becomes 20,000kcal per day for the first 6-12 weeks, and 7,500kcal per day for the remaining 12-18 weeks, with total repairs (assuming 26 weeks for each "repair") lasting 3,738.32 years.

4,000kcal/day x 5 "repairs" at a time = 20,000kcal/day
1,500kcal/day x 5 "repairs" at a time = 7,500kcal/day
7,476.67 total "fractures to be "repaired" x 26 weeks/"repair" = 194,392.52 weeks
194,392.52 weeks ÷ 52 weeks/year = 3,738.32 years

Between the soft tissue and the skeleton, we're going to need a total of approximately 2.51x10^9kcal.

Average kcal requirements for initial skeletal reconfiguration:
(1,256,074,766.36kcal + 2,512,149,532.71kcal) ÷ 2 = 1,334,579,439.25kcal
Average kcal requirements for further skeletal repairs:
(942,056,074.77kcal + 1,413,084,112.15kcal) ÷ 2 = 1,177,570,093.46kcal
Total kcal requirements for soft tissue and the skeleton:
99,737.76kcal + 1,334,579,439.25kcal + 1,177,570,093.46kcal = 2,512,249,270.47kcal

I'm worried. These kinds of requirements, they're enormous. What do I mean by "enormous"? Let's say we represent these caloric values with a Twinkie. According to my calculations, it would be a Twinkie 85.23ft (25.98m) long, weighing approximately 785.08 tons.

[Image: kzXSmfn.jpg]
That's a big Twinkie.
(This post was last modified: 2020-08-23 21:18 by coffeebear.)
2020-08-23 21:17
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Talarp
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Post: #5
RE: The Realities of P-Shifting
Thanks for this thread! Will help a lot of young therians/otherkins !

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Take care Ear Fold
Tala
2020-08-24 6:32
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