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Identifying with a medical condition
DustWolf
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Post: #1
Identifying with a medical condition
Hello,

This isn't really related to therianthropy, however in many online spaces outside of Therian Guide, where therians are present, there is a growing movement towards people using various medical conditions as a part of their social identity.


I don't have to name names, but there are people who identify as being a system (based on a medical diagnosis of multiple personalities) or similar.

As I have stated before, I do not believe this is acceptable. If one has a medical condition they should work on getting it resolved, possibly through the use of a medical professional.


We should never arrive at a point where people think it's cool to have a medical condition. I believe people who identify with their medical condition and advertise this online, are acting irresponsibly. These actions can cause actual harm to the mental health of younger people observing, of which we know there are plenty of.

This YouTube video does a better job of explaining it than I do:



Suffice it to say I do not approve of people advertising their medical conditions online. Or suggesting or mixing and matching medical conditions with aspects of identity such as what Therianthropy might be.

I think it's fine if someone happens to mention their the medical condition, after all I too have on occasion sought tips on how to deal with my health problems. But I do not think it's not okay when someone makes it a part of who they are.

Therianthropy can be a part of your identity. Medical conditions should not be.

LP,
Dusty

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2021-09-25 11:09
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Post: #2
RE: Identifying with a medical condition

(2021-09-25 11:09)DustWolf Wrote:  


Fascinating Dust. Honestly I absolutely have seen this all over tik-tok and the fictionkin community.

Just proves humans aren't as far beyond monkey see monkey do as they'd like to believe.

Personally I think it's good to be proud of who you are, especially something you can't change about yourself. However being proud of yourself doesn't mean posting videos glorifying your mental illness on social media. If one wants to spread information I think the format this guy used is much more informative, however people don't find it trendy to have a clinical dialogue like that sadly.
I'm proud of myself, but I wouldn't post a video of myself taking a crap if I wanted to educate people about the digestive system. I feel like that's the TikTok equivalent of mental health videos on there.
Pride can be quiet, it's only narcissism that demands everyone else be proud with you. Being proud of yourself doesn't mean advertising every part of yourself to the world.

And if you (not you Dusty, rhetorical you) are really proud of yourself, you wouldn't feel the need to mimic others. You're not really proud of yourself if you're trying to be someone else.

Honestly humans and chimps kind of terrify me, social media has really brought out a very dark side of human nature.

I also think this explains most of the fictionkin community. They're exposed to it online and "spontaneously discover symptoms." Vs most real therians I know have felt this way before we discovered the community, probably since young childhood if not birth.

As much as I hate to say this, I've also seen this HUGELY in the trans community. People see that being trans is suddenly trendy and they want to be too. That's not to say there isn't people who are legitimately trans, there are many out there. However I think young people are taking it and using it to be cool and trendy.

It's interesting, because I'm seeing it mostly with ftx people (female to whatever) and he mentions in his video it's mostly young girls who are doing this. Similarly I don't see a lot of biological males in the fictionkin community.

I feel familiar enough with the trans community to say this because I used to consider myself trans. But as my mental health improved my gender dysphoria naturally alleviated. I guess I wouldn't say I am entirely cis, but I don't want to change my body, and it's something I just don't think much about.
I also took very high potency ashwagandha for a few days and it caused my testosterone levels to spike. I became extremely emotionally erratic, unreasonably upset about things that would have only bothered me before. It made me realize I really hate testosterone and would never want it in my body.

Anyways, thanks for sharing dust. Whish topics like this had more publicity.


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2021-09-25 15:13
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Post: #3
RE: Identifying with a medical condition

(2021-09-25 15:13)Atlantis Wrote:  And if you (not you Dusty, rhetorical you) are really proud of yourself, you wouldn't feel the need to mimic others. You're not really proud of yourself if you're trying to be someone else.


As I understand, it's empathy. Not much different, from how I can feel how it would feel when someone pets my dog's snout. Empathy in itself is not a bad thing, I'm actually quite glad everyone has it.

What I think is problematic is when well-known members of the community say they are something backed up by a medical diagnosis -- if (rethorical) you have a diagnosis, what are you doing to resolve it, why are you wearing it like a badge of pride when you said it's recognised as a disorder.

If someone supported their therianthropy with something like clynical lycanthropy I would say the same thing. Psychosis is not fun, if (rethorical) you get it, please go to a hospital and get meds before something bad happens?! Don't advertise it to half the Internet, especially considering the point that you could actually cause harm to others just by showing it around.


It is true that some medical conditions are only diagnosed and there is no way to treat them. I question the ethics of medical professionals who make such diagosis. If it isn't really harmful and there is no way to cure it, how is it a disorder? As I have mentioned in Discord, I suspect some of these are just schemes by quack doctors to draw insurance money and have people pay for treatments that don't really help. This is not sustaniable and I feel bad for people who have become trapped in such schemes.

(2021-09-25 15:13)Atlantis Wrote:  It's interesting, because I'm seeing it mostly with ftx people (female to whatever) and he mentions in his video it's mostly young girls who are doing this. Similarly I don't see a lot of biological males in the fictionkin community.


I think he is explaining what is statistically the population. This is not to be misunderstood as "everyone is like this".

Statistically the active TG user is a female in mid-teens, because 60% of our users are female and there is an activity spike for older teenagers, who don't yet have jobs. This says nothing about the fact that almost half (40%) of all TG users are male, or that there are a whole lot of very active members who have jobs. It obviously doesn't mean that you can only be on TG if you are a teenage female.

It doesn't really describe anyone here either, because I have found that our discussions of therianthropy work the best if we don't even know each-other's sex at all. I find it helpful if you don't know sex / gender and such and you have to drop your predispositions and just treat everyone with respect.

The statistical description of the population exists to quickly give a rough idea of who we are talking about, to people who are not particularly invested in or interested in learning who members of a particular group are. Just like if I tell you that TG people are 60% female, while furries are 90% male, it gives you a rough idea that these aren't the same kinds of people (and maybe explains why there is such a thing as furry porn, but no such thing as TG porn), but it doesn't actually tell you anything about who people on TG are. It's not intended to describe a community accurately.

But then, you know, anyone who wants to know can find out on their own.

LP,
Dusty


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(This post was last modified: 2021-09-25 16:57 by DustWolf.)
2021-09-25 16:41
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Post: #4
RE: Identifying with a medical condition
This is just messed up thinking. the video is very much correct, saying that people need to be responsible and not fabricate, exaggerate, and romanticize mental disorders. What you're saying isn't even the same thing. Everything you said in this post just sounds like you want people to hide the life the have to live every day because they suffer with a disorder. How can you not see what a horrible thing this is to perpetuate? This is the same ideal people have with wanting to shun education and normalization of talking about mental illness and similar issues. Your thinking is what hurts the sufferers further. They live a life just like everyone else, but because theirs is filled with an issue you want them to pretend it doesn't affect them how it does around others, just to cater to everyone else's comfortability. This is their normal just like your life is your normal. Don't say that they should hide it if everyone else doesn't have to, and don't blame the ones who aren't doing the harmful things highlighted from the video for wanting to live openly like everyone else does.
With proper education and normalization of people leading different ways of existence, we can hope it will no longer be something that gets glamourized on social media and somehow seen as "cool," but even without that it is completely unfair to blame those with a disorder who are not acting harmfully themselves on social media, for the actions of other people. On top of that, silencing people making honest content about their lives with disorders has the complete opposite effect to this goal, instead reversing progress in these areas that has been made in recent times. (Not to mention it takes away opportunities from people who may have disorders while not knowing it to realize they could suffer from these and should seek treatment.)
I also do not understand saying it is okay to have therianthropy as an "identity" but not DID for example, when this exact same thing we're talking about happens with therianthropy. I understand it's not as serious if it happens with therianthropy as with a disorder, but I don't see why using your logic in this post it is okay to "advertise" therianthropy if it could cause youth to think they are therians by seeing it when they are not, in fact.

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2021-09-25 19:33
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Post: #5
RE: Identifying with a medical condition

(2021-09-25 19:33)Pinedirt Wrote:  Everything you said in this post just sounds like you want people to hide the life the have to live every day because they suffer with a disorder.


There is a clear distinction between not hiding something and identifying with it.

I experience migraines. I don't hide it. I talk about them sometimes in the forums. I do not identify as a migraine therian.

(2021-09-25 19:33)Pinedirt Wrote:  I also do not understand saying it is okay to have therianthropy as an "identity" but not DID for example, when this exact same thing we're talking about happens with therianthropy. I understand it's not as serious if it happens with therianthropy as with a disorder, but I don't see why using your logic in this post it is okay to "advertise" therianthropy if it could cause youth to think they are therians by seeing it when they are not, in fact.


Therianthropy is not a medical disorder. Even if it does cause negative effects to some, those negative effects are recognised as medical conditions that should be treated, rather than dismissed as an aspect of identity (who we are).

I hope this is clear enough.

LP,
Dusty


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(This post was last modified: 2021-09-25 20:01 by DustWolf.)
2021-09-25 20:00
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Post: #6
RE: Identifying with a medical condition
May I add something? Understanding of the trans community, I am not trans myself, but I am very much fascinated by the people in it. This does not cause me to have a different outlook on my gender, however. Naturally, being trans isn't a medical condition, as far as I'm aware, but I am genuinely intrigued by their community.

When someone has garnered a lot of respect or is famous for what they do, somehow, it is very likely that one will try to copy the behavior of that person.
My experience with therianthropy is that most people in this community have medical conditions or are mentally scarred in a way. But, these conditions are not necessarily the root of their therianthropy. Like DustWolf had said, therianthropy is not a medical condition, but it's remarkable don't you think that it does seem to be accompanied with real ones. They just come with the package or in some cases, have no ties with it at all. It seems to vary from person to person.

It's not because I like Michael Jackson, that I want to alter my facial appearance. Dumb example, maybe, but I think this was the point of this thread, wasn't it?
2021-09-25 20:25
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Post: #7
RE: Identifying with a medical condition
There is a fine borderline here. Sure... don't hate yourself for a condition you can't change, but don't flaunt it about. You can talk about it if stuff like that comes up, but don't go shoving it in other's faces...

At least, that's my opinion.


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2021-09-25 20:51
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Post: #8
RE: Identifying with a medical condition

(2021-09-25 20:00)DustWolf Wrote:  

(2021-09-25 19:33)Pinedirt Wrote:  Everything you said in this post just sounds like you want people to hide the life the have to live every day because they suffer with a disorder.


There is a clear distinction between not hiding something and identifying with it.

I experience migraines. I don't hide it. I talk about them sometimes in the forums. I do not identify as a migraine therian.


Can you explain to me more what you mean by "identifying with" something? I do think I better understand what you're saying, but perhaps I am not fully understanding what that is intended to mean. I think of that phrase as acknowledging a significant part of ones self with a term. How you would if it was something with relevance to your sense of self. like your gender, or for a DID system, putting a label on the fact that they experience that condition at all times and it impacts their internal self significantly. Meaning, I don't see how one could not "identify with" a disorder like that anyway, unless they were unaware of its presence.
With the migraine example, migraines probably don't make you into the person you are, even if they have affect on living quality. DID is literally an identity disorder like its name states, so, it's self explanatory how it would be an identity. (The same things with migraines would go for Tourette's syndrome, so yeah those do not need to be an "identity," like who we are, however migraine and Tourette's education/awareness should still exist, should they not?)


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(This post was last modified: 2021-09-25 20:59 by Pinedirt.)
2021-09-25 20:58
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Post: #9
RE: Identifying with a medical condition

(2021-09-25 20:58)Pinedirt Wrote:  Can you explain to me more what you mean by "identifying with" something? I do think I better understand what you're saying, but perhaps I am not fully understanding what that is intended to mean. I think of that phrase as acknowledging a significant part of ones self with a term. How you would if it was something with relevance to your sense of self. like your gender, or for a DID system, putting a label on the fact that they experience that condition at all times and it impacts their internal self significantly. Meaning, I don't see how one could not "identify with" a disorder like that anyway, unless they were unaware of its presence.
With the migraine example, migraines probably don't make you into the person you are, even if they have affect on living quality. DID is literally an identity disorder like its name states, so, it's self explanatory how it would be an identity. (The same things with migraines would go for Tourette's syndrome, so yeah those do not need to be an "identity," like who we are, however migraine and Tourette's education/awareness should still exist, should they not?)


I think the concept of a medical disorder is that something isn't the way it's supposed to be and that there is a healthy state in which the disorder isn't present. In identity, you are exactly who you were supposed to be (because, it's you). You can't be cured of your identity. If someone were to try and remove parts of who you are through medical procedures it would be considered to be invasive and unnecessary.

For example, being gay is not a disorder, it's an aspect of identity. You can't be cured of being gay, it's a part of who you are. There were historic attempts at removing homosexuality from a person, but this is now understood to be unethical and it was ineffective at the time as well.


If you identify with a disorder, you are basically saying that the disorder is a part of who you are and it's not something that anyone should attempt to remove. It would be unethical to try to cure you. However, since it is a disorder, it's negatively impacting your life and it should be cured. There is an obvious conflict here.

Additionally to it being detrimental to your own life, because of the disorder, there is also the problem described in the video, where broadcasting your disorder causes harm to people around you.


I don't think DID being an identity disorder really makes these problems go away. Being affected by DID and it causing you to dissociate is one thing, but making the DID diagnosis a part of who you are, is another. I'm not going to dive too deep here because anything either of us can say about DID is going to be plagued with inaccuracy (given that there likely isn't a qualified person to talk about this). However, there is a standard for which people are allowed to interact with society and if your DID is so severe that you actually have no choice but to present as different people on a daily basis, likely you will be institutionalised and won't have access to the Internet to broadcast anything in the first place.

Also, you could easily stretch your explanation to migraines, since they are a brain condition and personality (a large part of identity) is obviously based on the functioning of the brain.


As for the question whether awareness videos should be a thing or not. I don't know if I'm qualified to answer that, but I guess when you get to the point where someone is making money or enjoying a higher social standing from having a disorder, it's not about awareness anymore.

Perhaps what would work better was if the awareness videos were made by clinicians and not patients.




(2021-09-25 20:25)Lupus Ferox Wrote:  May I add something? Understanding of the trans community, I am not trans myself, but I am very much fascinated by the people in it. This does not cause me to have a different outlook on my gender, however. Naturally, being trans isn't a medical condition, as far as I'm aware, but I am genuinely intrigued by their community.


Trans people do have medical conditions which are a direct result of them being trans. Not all people have them, obviously.

There's a bunch written on this topic in the DSM-5. As you might imagine it's a bit of a hot topic, but essentially the gist of it is that clinicians are looking for ways to help people who are trans not have medical conditions.

It depends on who you talk to. People in general probably don't care about medical conditions, but if you talk to medical professionals, they care about nothing but medical conditions. I'm sure you got to experience that first-hand regarding your autism.

(2021-09-25 20:25)Lupus Ferox Wrote:  My experience with therianthropy is that most people in this community have medical conditions or are mentally scarred in a way.


I think it's important not to forget that we are an online community here on TG. Online spaces tend to attract people with unresolved issues, because online you can exist without needing to deal with the issues. It creates a kind of bias where over time, communities get saturated with people with unresolved issues.

I once revisited an IRC community I hung out with in my youth. The only people who were still there, were those who had the same unresolved issues they had when I was still frequenting those places about a decade ago. It's not a great outlook.

(2021-09-25 20:25)Lupus Ferox Wrote:  It's not because I like Michael Jackson, that I want to alter my facial appearance. Dumb example, maybe, but I think this was the point of this thread, wasn't it?


There are many spaces outside of TG, that have therians in them, where disorders are glorified and if you check, everyone in those spaces claims to have these disorders. It's to the point that people come here to TG to make accounts and the first thing they have to do is tell everyone about all of their disorders.

It's indicative of the fact that we have a problem.

LP,
Dusty


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(This post was last modified: 2021-09-25 23:43 by DustWolf.)
2021-09-25 23:13
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Post: #10
RE: Identifying with a medical condition
As far as this pertains to therianthropy:

If someone experiences a sense of animality due to DID or some other origin that we might consider medical, mental or neurological and their experience hits most of the fundamental key notes of other therians, I think it's fair to consider it therianthropy. My reasoning for this is if you ask 100 different therians why they're therian, you're going to get 100 different answers. I don't think focusing on origin is useful in the slightest. Our ideas of where our therianthropy stems from are vast and far more random than similar. Our experiences, however, are measurably comparable and hold some fundamental similarities.

With that said - yeah, it's trendy to identify as plural in the otherkin, fictionkin, alterhuman communities. I've had this discussion before and I've come to concur with @elinox that there likely are folks within the community who experience something like this but the ratio of genuine to disingenuous claimants is likely skewed heavily towards trenders, role-playing, trying to be special or making some kind of a performative, identity-politics statement.

I agree with Dust that this type of thing ought not be glorified but I also agree with many others that it's not something we should be attaching stigmatization to, either. The thing is we live in a world of polar extremes and it seems that no one can find it within their better reasoning to find a neutral, middle-ground on this stuff. Not stigmatizing or treating plurals poorly does not equate to placing them on grand pedestals to the point where young, impressionable people start saying "I want to be diagnosed with DID when I grow up!".

There are many harmful trenders, imposters on and offline for a number of self-serving reasons. People will claim to be something they are not to feel special, in seeking social acceptance, for social security fraud, attention, sympathy, ect

I find the argument that "everyone is valid just because they say so" incredibly ridiculous and naive to the fact that deception exists and people do it if they can benefit from it in some way. I don't think accusing individuals of being deceptive on a whim, especially if we aren't part of the group someone is claiming to be, is a good practice. What we need to do instead is stigmatize the concept of playing make-believe for one's personal gain and talk about how it's harmful/hurtful. Which, to me, is essentially what the OP seems to be aimed at.

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2021-09-26 0:29
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