Holothere vs Therianthropy

✧ ----- Holothere vs Therianthropy ----- ✧

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As the title of this thread suggests, this thread is focused around explaining a specific term that has been floating around for a couple of years now. Some of you may currently use it and some of you may not really understand what this term really means. You probably see some of us adults advise against using it and we do have our reasons. I hope with this thread that it may shed some light and understanding of why this term really isn't good for the community to use specially with how misunderstood it is. Alot of us adults been around the community long enough to see terms come into view and change over time. We see how terms get watered down or misunderstood. So as adults of the community we try to point the younger therians in the right direction of what therianthropy really is at it's core.

Now, please don't confuse this thread as a "Don't you dare use this term.". You can use this term all you want but at least understand why we advise against it. So let's go ahead and dive right in!

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The Term Holothere

What is a Holothere?

Spoiler (Click to View)

Holothere by definition, is...

Quote:"A self-identifier term for individuals who are physically and fundamentally nonhuman in every way."

Coined by DefrostedVertebrae on 23/02/2024

Now originally, the term mentioned that a holothere is someone who has delusions. It has since been adjusted to avoid mentioning it but it still implies. If we go to take a deeper look at the term, you'll notice that it speaks about delusions. Then why doesn't the term's definition include it being about delusions you might ask? That's a good question but because sometimes people try to hide things in plain sight to avoid trouble or to deceive you. There could be many reasons why but it doesn't change the fact of what is before us.

The Q n A of Holothere Posted by The Coiner

Spoiler (Click to View)

This is the Carrd that the creator themselves have posted. If you go under FAQ, you'll notice some things and I will address them here.
https://holothere.carrd.co/#faq

Question 1: Wouldn't holothere be anti-recovery for individuals who experience delusions?

Quote:A: Not all delusions are inherently dammaging to those who have them, and either way it's up to the individual to judge and decide what's best for them. Schizospec and delusional individuals are not children, do not need to be handheld on the internet by non-delusional individuals and have discernment and can decide for themselves what to get involved in and when to pull back

First off, this is completely wrong. You should not encourage delusions even if they appear harmless. They are in fact harmful. Delusions can develop to worsen overtime if you encourage them. They can turn into something as dangerous as killing a friend to "save" them.

I have had a roommate who is schizophrenic. Encouragement of his delusions would harm him and put the safety of others around him at risk. He thought he saw demons, angels and so forth. There is times where thinks he was having a conversation with a friend that went sour when it never even happened. So that would mean he would be mad at that friend for something that never happened. There was times where he tried to kill his mother with poisoned food. There was a moment where he was having an episode, pissed off and angry at me for something i never did. I had to lock myself in my own room with knifes just in case if he tried to hurt me. (Thankfully after getting help, he is doing much better now.)

If someone has delusions... do not encourage them because you will make it worse for them. They need help, medical help. The only thing I can agree with is yes don't treat them like children but do not lie to them and encourage them to believe their delusions. Cygnus a staffer here could explain if they wish exactly why that is medically dangerous to encourage.


Question 2: Wouldn't holothere encourage P-shifter cults?

Quote:A: As stated previously on the home page, holothere does not inherently describe shifting and is not a term for those who are human that wish to no longer be. While we have no strong stance on the matter, we are aware of the issue but the term itself is not meant for anyone who isn't physically nonhuman already, by definition. It is not intended to be used for malice, however i do not control what others do on the internet.

So right off the bat, you will see this term, Holothere means you PHYSICALLY have to be your theriotype in some sort of way. Which we all know or I hope all of us know that it is simply impossible. So yes, this term in fact does encourage folks to believe in physical shifting or some way being physically their theriotype. Which again bring us back to the term being focused around a delusion.


Question 3: Do i need to state whether i'm holothere due to delusions?

Quote:A: Only if you want to. I made this term because there was no middle ground between announcing your psychiatric status via labels, using physical nonhuman as a generalised term, or just using P-shifter despite the stigma. Holothere was created to sit in the place of the generalised "physically nonhuman", blind to the actual reason why one might be holothere. Farther than that it's up to the individual.

Of course you can state it if you want, it isn't required. But do you guys notice that it still encourages that physical shifting or being your theriotype in a physically impossible way? "Despite the stigma" If someone is telling you that it is possible, they are deceiving you. There is plenty of us adults, including myself who have fallen into the hands of these cult packs who encourage physical shifting or some sort of form of it. It is harmful to your mental health and it will make it harder for you as a therian to get by in human life. Please do not fall victim to it as many of us did during our younger years. For some of us the dream of being able to still lingers deep within us no matter how much we understand it is not possible. For your own safety please avoid people who encourage it. We adults may be old and lecture you guys but please don't discredit our experience and wisdom. We know a thing or two because we been there too...

Here is a link of why physically being your theriotype is impossible.
https://forums.therian-guide.com/Thread-The-Realities-of-P-Shifting


Question 4: Can i call myself a holothere if my identity is non-physical?

Quote:A: Definitionally, no. Therianthropy allows for vast ays of expression of nonhumanity, this term is simply meant to describe a specific experience either outside of under therianthropy, depending on how individual creatures prefer to see themselves.

Again this means to be a holothere, you must physically be your theriotype in some sort of way.

Continuation of "What is a Holothere?"

Spoiler (Click to View)

Now that we looked at majority of the questions, let's take a peek at the other posts from the coiner themselves about Holothere.
https://defrostedvertebrae.tumblr.com/post/743116468535885824/holothere

Click to See Screenshot (Click to View)

https://i.postimg.cc/W3qWy9tk/1.png

What I highlighted in blue, you'll see that the coiner of the term uses an example of Holothere. As you read you will notice that it is separate from Therianthropy and that it is not Therianthropy at all. Why? Because the key component in this, is the fact that it requires you to physically be something that is not human as it shows.

Below this screenshot you will find that they state...

Quote:"It is meant to define and describe physical nonhumanity as either as a term on its own or as a descriptor of a specific therian experience. The physical aspect of holothery is intentionally defined to be vague, because individuals can relate to it and experience it in a very differently."

So what they are saying is very... contradicting. A holothere is someone who is physically non-human and that you cannot be holothere without being physically non-human. So therians would not be able use the term the same way. Which is why they leave the term to be "vague" and up to the individual use it how they see fit. Which allowed alot of confusion and loss of the term's actual meaning. It allowed younger therians to misuse a term but also allowed them to get confused about what therianthropy is at its core.

The Different Uses of Holothere

Spoiler (Click to View)

Now alot of you guys may use a different version of Holothere than what the original term is. You use a version that describes how animalistic you feel. How you feel more like an animal than that of a person. Perhaps you don't feel human at all but you still know you have a physical body of a human. Maybe you use this term because you arn't one to say, "I know I have a human body even though I feel animal.". You use this term to describe how you reject your humanity a bit more than maybe other therians.

I hope to offer you clarity of why that is therianthropy on its own and not Holothere.

Therianthropy

What is Therianthropy?

Spoiler (Click to View)

As many of you know or if you don't that's okay, you'll get to now!
https://www.therian-guide.com/index.php/2-therianthropy

Quote:A person who experiences being and identifies as a non-human animal on an integral, personal level.

This means a person despite whatever reason whether Spiritual or Psychological reasons of why... You experience a feeling of being non-human on some sort of deep level within you. You experience these animalistic behaviors, drives or instincts that just doesn't seem like a typical human trait. This caused you to feel non-human, it caused you to see yourself as an animal and it may of caused you to some point in your life reject your humanity whether you were a teen or as an adult.

A Psychological Therian would believe their non-humanness comes from perhaps, trauma or maybe it was just how their brain was wired and born to be.

A Spiritual Therian could be many different things that would explain why they experience their non-humanness. Whether it is because of a past life or the soul of an animal placed in the wrong body. There is alot of beliefs out there but too many to really go into detail.

The fact is at the end of the day, no matter what all therians experience non-humanness despite it being Spiritual or Psychological. We all experience this thing where we see ourselves as an animal because of this non-humanness we feel on the daily basis in every aspect of our life. It doesn't matter if you feel less human than another therian, and it doesn't matter if you more human than someone else. Grouping ourselves into smaller categories of who feels what more is counter-productive for the community and it only separates ourselves and lead to confusion of what therianthropy means at its core.

Why Some Therians May Not Reject Their Humanity as Much as You

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So an important thing to keep in mind when it comes to therianthropy is, yes we see our selves as animals but with a physical human body. Alot of body and species dysphoria often an issue within therians is because the lack of love or comfort they have for their human body. This dysphoria can worsen over time as you grow distaste for your human body. Something I noticed is, majority of therians who are okay with their human body experience less dysphoria than those who have yet to come to terms or find peace in loving their human body.

Something I try to remind folks is that the therian experience isn't solely focusing on being just animal but it is also about having a paw in two worlds, human and animal. We are trapped and forced to be within them both whether we like it or not. We have to give attention to not just our animal self but also to our human self for our own sanity. Now trust me, I'm not saying it is easy but it is possible to find a middle ground that works for you. You just gotta explore and reflect on who you are and your experience. Your mind deserve peace, not a battle between the two worlds.

Conclusion of Why Alternative Use of Holothere is Just Therianthropy

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With everything stated above, I hope you guys can see why "alternative" term of Holothere really is just Therianthropy. On a separate thread that is solely called, "Holothere" you may find other users explanations of why Holothere's "alternative" term is pointless and really is just therianthropy. I highly recommend taking time to reading the posts there if this thread doesn't help you.

https://forums.therian-guide.com/Thread-Holothere?pid=289032#pid289032

So at the end of everything...

The original Holothere's term means that you actually have to be physically something that is not human. Whether it is a delusion or seriously meaning DNA altering. Aswell as being a completely separate thing from therianthropy.

For Holothere's Alternative term, it just describes the non-humanness that just simply is the common experience of therianthropy at it's core despite the amount of lack of humanness acceptance.

That Therianthropy means... experiencing the world around you, feeling, behaving and thinking something that is not human-like. That you are, non-human in every aspect... expect physical <3

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Thank you everyone who took the time to read this thread, I really hope it was informative and eye opening for you as it was me. I spent alot of time putting this thread together which was fun! I also spent time hearing input from our members about Holothere, Such as Neon rosettes, Fernfox, Cygnus, Zero, and many others. Thank you guys for your help on discussion about Holothere on the Discord Side of TG. I want to also thank MountainChild, starwingedwolf and other youngsters who were curious to ask questions and learn from us adults <3 And lastly... thank you to those within my Team showing support as I wrote up this big thread. <3

If you are on discord and want to see some of that discussion yourself, please visit this link here;
Discord Link to Discussion

Everyone is free to of course to add in your own two cents about holothere or how it is compared to therianthropy.

With love,
- Spoon

having never heard of this term before, thank you! this was very informational :3

I will always maintain that if you were physically X, you wouldn’t be a holothere (or even a therian). You’d just be X. I may not have been born male but I am a man, and ultimately that is what is more important. But I don’t claim to be “physically male” because if I were, I’d just be cis. Trying to dance around the phrasing to suggest there’s such a thing as “physically nonhuman” while being born in a human body that has two thumbs and uses the Internet is silly at best and harmful at worst. There are better ways to accept the parts of you that you can’t change than full-on rejection, because that’s a pit you’re never going to hit the bottom of. Be kind to yourself. We know how you feel, and you’re not alone in dealing with dysphoria.

This was a great and informative read, Spoon! I was already aware of the term existing, but I feel like you brought up a lot of important points and it has been eye opening. Thank you.

this was awesome to read!! thank you Spoon

The rise of physical alterhumanity is fascinating to me. I get critique on my videos because I exclusively have called alterhuman identities "non-physical" in the past, but that's because I feel like that was just what I had been taught over the years, and suddenly there's an uprise of people labeling their experience as "physical". People tend to forget that content creators can move with the development of the community and learn new things, but I digress.

Unless it's based on clear zooanthropy or delusion, I so far have not been able to wrap my head around how it works exactly (not that I'm not accepting of it). Perhaps it is a more spiritual-centered identity, or the concept of physicality is being pushed. I have heard a lot of physical alterhumans claiming to be physical while they really just meant not identifying as human, so perhaps it's could be an exaggeration of the concept as well, in a way. It's something I've yet to uncover, so if anyone wants to share their experience on that, they're free to.

Maybe I'll one day interview some holothere's to ask about their experiences and make a video about it.

Nonetheless, I've heard the term enough to decide to add it to my personal alterhuman termlist. Thank you for sharing this information!

(2026-02-17 0:34)Thorn Wrote:  The rise of physical alterhumanity is fascinating to me. I get critique on my videos because I exclusively have called alterhuman identities "non-physical" in the past, but that's because I feel like that was just what I had been taught over the years, and suddenly there's an uprise of people labeling their experience as "physical". People tend to forget that content creators can move with the development of the community and learn new things, but I digress.

Unless it's based on clear zooanthropy or delusion, I so far have not been able to wrap my head around how it works exactly (not that I'm not accepting of it). Perhaps it is a more spiritual-centered identity, or the concept of physicality is being pushed. I have heard a lot of physical alterhumans claiming to be physical while they really just meant not identifying as human, so perhaps it's could be an exaggeration of the concept as well, in a way. It's something I've yet to uncover, so if anyone wants to share their experience on that, they're free to.

Maybe I'll one day interview some holothere's to ask about their experiences and make a video about it.

Nonetheless, I've heard the term enough to decide to add it to my personal alterhuman termlist. Thank you for sharing this information!

if its not based on zoanthropy it tends to be metaphorical, listing examples below

for example "my brain is that of a wolf, so my body is a wolf's body", "i dont identify with my current body and id much prefer/identify more with a wolf body", "this feature of my body resembles something nonhuman", "My phantom shifts are so strong it feels like theres genuinely something there", or someone whos planning to modify their body to match their species better. A lot of it is just regular therianthropy.

Throwing in my opinion. A lot of physical therianthropy is portrayed as literal, when 90% of it is actually metaphorical so I dislike the label, and I think it should be labelled as metaphorical instead of acting like its literal. Some also consider Holotheres and physical Therians to be "more animal" than regular Therians, when neither are ACTUALLY LITERALLY physically their theriotype so it just feels a bit competitive and trying to be "the most animal" to me. I have more issues but I won't list them here

Can't wait to link new people that show up labeling themselves as holotheres to this thread

I agree with @starwingedwolf and many others that the holothere label feels like just another attempt to section the community into "fakers" and "actual therians". Those that use it are usually either trying to claim they're more animal than everyone else or have delusions. I have more to say but it's nothing that hasn't already been said here or on the Discord.

I've had my nose in the therian tiktok scene for a couple of years now, so I've watched this term gain traction and evolve. Based on how I've seen it most often used, I'd like to chime in.

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I think the huge divide between those who use holothere and those who hate it, tends to stem from two main uses of the word. You'll notice that neither of these uses reflect holothere's original definition including delusions, but these are how it's been re-appropriated and how it is most often used today:

• 1) A holothere is someone who feels viscerally or wholly non-human. (Not physically in the literal sense; I'll get to that) Or,
• 2) A holothere is someone who feels that they should be physically non-human, or who voluntarily perceives themselves to be non-human (rejecting or ignoring reality, but not experiencing true delusions).
  

The problem is this: Both of the above are therianthropy.

These are common experiences of therians, and have been described by therians for as long as the community has been recorded. A good number of us identify fully as our theriotype, or perceive ourselves as our theriotype in a non-delusional, yet still deeply integral way-- through perception of the Inner Self, soul/astral beliefs, or because of intense shifts. Therianthropy covers a variety of 'depths' of animal identity, and while many learn to accept and cope with a human body in combination with the internal identity (as this is generally healthiest), this doesn't take away from the fact that these are still presentations of therianthropy, and always have been.

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So why do some new/young alterhumans feel the need to label themselves as holothere as opposed to therianthropy?

My hypothesis is this: It all comes down to where & how they learned about therianthropy-- often, tiktok or tumblr, or through word-of-mouth from peers who learned that way. In many places online, there has been a boom of performative 'therian' content over the last 5ish years: Wearing masks, doing quadrobics, adhering to a certain earthy fashion style, and (particularly) using theriotypes (or kinning) primarily as a way to describe what animals they connect with, relate to, or base their aesthetic around.

This is where many young people are learning about therianthropy, and as a result, they're beginning to see therianthropy in this watered-down and aesthetic light. Even if we try to explain (again and again) that that isn't what therianthropy is; they're still seeing content like that from their peers every day. It colours their idea of the community, intentionally or not.

So when they find themselves experiencing real & intense therianthropy-- frequent shifts, feeling at their core that they are non-human, wishing that they could be perceived in the same way they view themselves-- they think that they need a word deeper than therianthropy. That's when they come across holothere, and think that the distinction fits what they're experiencing.

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Many of them know that the actual definition includes the word 'physical', but they often justify their use of holothere by either:

• Trying to redefine the word physical (to mean wholly or viscerally, as opposed to 'based in physical reality'), or
• Through leaps of logic, such as "I identify as a cat, I have a body, therefore my body is that of a cat"
  

However, this redefining of 'physical' therian is harmful for all. For those that truly experience delusions, for the therian community at large, and for the lay-person trying to understand what therianthropy is.

Not only does it obscure the original definition of holothere by trying to make the term into something it isn't (as evidenced in the Q&A), but it also harms the therian community by perpetuating this idea that therianthropy is surface-level or only one degree of animal identity, and that a different term is needed to prove how deeply 'animal' someone is.

We don't need a new term to encourage splitting of the community or a weird competitive "I'm more animal than you" attitude. There is enough of that already. All this label serves to do is split an already complex identity further into small little boxes which barely fit anyone. It misrepresents therianthropy and perpetuates a false & superficial idea of it, alienating those who originally coined the term, and alienating therians who struggle to accept their humanity. And it discredits ALL communities by using 'physical' in a way that is simply not correct.

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The rest of Spoon's post covers everything else, so I won't rehash the things that have already been said. But I wanted to add this on, as I get the feeling a few pups will read this and think "I'm not using the term to describe delusions, but I don't want to acknowledge my body as human, so I'll keep using it".

Even when the term is used to describe a non-delusional identity (against it's original meaning), it is misguided at best and harmful at worst. You are still a therian if you are struggling with your humanity, or if you choose to reject it entirely. (And I think you'd be surprised how many of us can relate to those feelings).

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I also agree with Neon Rosette's reply a bit above. If someone is experiencing true delusions, I don't think they would be seeking out a word that puts them into a little bubble like this. They would just 'be' the animal.

It falls into this weird grey area of "I delusionally believe I am a physical animal, but am self-aware enough to know that it is a delusion". This by definition, means that it is not a true delusion-- as true psychotic delusions typically involve a lack of insight. Having that degree of self-awareness, yet choosing to still feed into delusions / self-identify as being a physical animal -- and encourage it by taking on an 'identity' that specifically marks you as delusional -- is unhealthy and shouldn't be encouraged. (Especially among easily-influenced young people just trying to find words to explore their identity).

And for my final point against the use of holothere: it's a very silly word. Oh holo there! ... Truly, I think they could have come up with a better and more intelligible label than that! I'm sure part of the reason it's been so easily misappropriated is that the definition is not at all clear from the word itself, so everyone has to rely on word of mouth, or praying you find the correct definition when diving in the depths of otherkin-wiki.

- Fern

(2026-02-17 8:00)FernFox Wrote:  I also agree with Neon Rosette's reply a bit above. If someone is experiencing true delusions, I don't think they would be seeking out a word that puts them into a little bubble like this. They would just 'be' the animal.

It falls into this weird grey area of "I delusionally believe I am a physical animal, but am self-aware enough to know that it is a delusion". This by definition, means that it is not a true delusion-- as true psychotic delusions typically involve a lack of insight. Having that degree of self-awareness, yet choosing to still feed into delusions / self-identify as being a physical animal -- and encourage it by taking on an 'identity' that specifically marks you as delusional -- is unhealthy and shouldn't be encouraged. (Especially among easily-influenced young people just trying to find words to explore their identity).


- Fern

I'll comment on this one as someone concerned.

It is not entirely impossible for someone to hold a delusional belief while knowing other people register it as a delusional belief. It's usually referred to as double-bookkeeping in psychiatric literature. You are correct that it is kind of on the grey line between what a medical professional would qualify as true psychosis or not, but it is not entirely uncommon in people with certain schizospec disorders (such as schizotypal), or in people who have been through the medical system for their delusions.

As a language shortcut, people usually refer to the belief held as a delusion when they know they are experiencing double-bookkeeping. Knowing other refer to one's belief as a delusion also doesn't necessarily means people do not act on the held belief : a lot of people will still to some degree follow rules imposed by the held belief, or continue obsessing over the subject. For a simple example : I am currently medicated and stable. I used to have a held belief that God talked to me to punish me. I currently am able to recognize this is a symptom of my disorder. Yet, even knowing this, it is very uncomfortable for me to enter churches or possess objects tied to a monotheist god, and to verbally denounce my delusion as fake. I wouldn't even consider my current state double-bookkeeping, I have experienced that too and it's a lot more severe, because in that case I did simultaneously hold the belief as true and try to react to people as if I did not believe it!

Psychosis is more complex than an off and on switch, and while what some people are saying online does register to me as exaggerated or incorrect, there is in fact a few people who do strike me as experiencing that sort of things.

Finally, for whether it is unhealthy to have a label that acknowledge delusional status : I don't think so personally. This is a complex subject, but psychotic experiences are often very shameful. Being able to take them back and talk about them can be powerful. I preferred how the endel movement (an identity caused, rooted in, or otherwise tied to a delusion per the coined definition) went about it personally, as it was a lot more safe both for other psychotic people (the holothere movement often posts things that can trigger other's psychosis by asserting them as true empirically, which endels didnt do), and for oneself (a lot of what I saw of it surrounded how to cope with experiences that are impossible, a lot of posts that made psychosis easier to understand and help with for non-psychotic).

I do also agree that these subjects are prone to being sensationalized by young people who are trying to cope with their own problem and tend to select the most severe sounding label they can. It is an understandable impulse in the face of pain you do not yet understand, and many young alterhumans are isolated, dysphoric, and experiencing things that for a lack of a better word, makes them feel insane. I don't entirely blame them. But where the endel movement's advice would probably not hurt someone who may be in the first stages of a delusional disorder nor would it hurt someone who was not, the holothere movement has a bad habit of... relying on pain as a measurement of how animal you are. The most animal are the ones in most pain, and i see a lot of holothere having blogs full of extreme distress that they do not wish to fix as they consider "being in a human world" the source of all their pain in a way they cannot fix instead of hoping for healing.

Hope this was easy enough to understand, I am not psychiatry professional, but I thought a bit of nuance on the subject was interesting to throw in.