Furries are from Mars, otherkin are from Venus

(2026-01-28 20:36)AriVB Wrote:  It doesn't have to do with the person's gender at this very moment - it's the way they were socialised that has left an impact. The biggest evidence for this is that trans folk who had the luck to be socialised as their correct gender from an early age behave and act in ways that corresponds to their gender identity, and often have the same stereotypical interests as others with their gender. In other words, trans people only "adhere to their assigned sex's behavioural stereotypes" for as long as they are treated that way by society.

This might be why I am the way I described a few replies above.

I was never "socialized" as either a girl or a boy growing up, my parents never pushed any behavior on me as a child and just let me do my own thing and play with whatever toys and whatever games I wanted... ironically my mother started pushing being female on me after I came out as trans (though my dad didn't), but I was already around 11-12 and used to just being myself at that point so it didn't change anything, just made me miserable and like I had to play pretend all of a sudden.

Even then though, per my mannerisms I was always more male than anything else. I wonder why that is.

(2025-02-23 11:19)DustWolf Wrote:  But I would like the reader to consider why the above is what we see? If online gender identification is genuine in the sense of someone claiming to be trans male being male, why does the majority of them seem to adhere to female behavioural stereotypes? If they didn't, the correlation mentioned above should be tied to gender and not sex, no?

Other queer folks have already commented on this, but as an AFAB trans guy I wanted to pitch in too.

Imo, to understand trans identities biology and gender should be considered separately. Biology is as we know strictly physical and it defines whether someone is traditionally male, female, or possibly intersex. Our physical systems, hormones and all, are the ones generally dictating how we naturally act and react.
Gender on the other hand is a social construct based off of biology, an idea that has evolved with humans that dictates how male and females should act, what they should like, etc. etc. It has always changed throughout history and it tends to differ from community to community. Because of trans identities being relatively new as far as their proper documentation goes tho, it can be difficult to grasp the idea that females and society's expectations of a female, aka a girl, do not always overlap. Same concept with male/boy.

Because of this "trans female" and "trans male" labels don't necessarily describe a change in biology - since not everyone transitions medically, and even those that do aren't 100% biologically of the opposite sex - but rather in social "role" (that has to do with the trans individual's self perception as one gender or another). Because of this sort of vague/contradictory wording, some trans people actually prefer to call themselves transfem or transmasc instead of male-to-female or female-to-male trans. Male and Female are very strictly biological words. Man and Woman and variations thereof are not.

Now the two, biology and societal norms, do obviously influence each other. One is born of the other after all.
I was born female, and because of this I've been raised to my countries/parent's standard of a girl. Just because I realized I am something else (my specific idea of gender is a little detached from the boy/girl spectrum because of what I've said above, but I choose to call myself a guy for simplicity's sake) doesn't mean that my biological make-up and that societal conditioning have gone away. As a matter of fact they are very prominent aspects of my being. Furthermore elements such as the differences in how girls and boys are typically raised also come into play here. Girls are generally nicer and in tune with their emotions. Being raised without dumb rules like "you're not allowed to cry" or "you have to be the strongest person in every room at every time" does wonders in regards of self expression. I think this is why trans women generally stick to being more feminine. They are already more ridiculed than trans men to begin with, and here come in misogyny and her sister transmisogyny which I am not getting into because it's late and I'm starting to loose the thread of my post.

So, overall, I think that these are the reasons why there is a number of trans men that with or without a medical transition still act traditionally feminine or prefer female-oriented spaces. It all comes down to female anatomy, and stereotypical girl childhood/teenage years/perhaps even life for some, with all it's cons (eg. misogyny) and pros (eg. emotional intelligence).
Apart from that, I also believe there's no real way to act as one gender or another. The rules are already made up and once you realize that you might as well have fun with them if possible. People raised in those strict guidelines are prone to judging anyways.

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Sorry if this is rambly, missing some points, or poorly structured. Im being very general with what I'm saying and am aware of that; no two people are gonna have the same experiences in life but there can be some trends because of the strict society we find ourselves in.
Also it's late, I'm sick for the umpteenth time this month, and I'm writing on my phone which is less than convenient. Please do question/debate anything I've said that sounds off

(2025-02-23 11:19)DustWolf Wrote:  But I would like the reader to consider why the above is what we see? If online gender identification is genuine in the sense of someone claiming to be trans male being male, why does the majority of them seem to adhere to female behavioural stereotypes? If they didn't, the correlation mentioned above should be tied to gender and not sex, no?

I want to touch on what you've said here about "online gender identification" (don't like that phrasing because I assure you I am still trans off of the internet) being genuine. Am I genuine in believing that I'm trans? Of course, but I do not truly claim that I am actually male. It is not about actually being male in any way, I simply feel better about myself when I'm seen as male. It causes me dysphoria to be seen as female. I understand that this could be compared to any number of things. Someone will probably feel better if you call them "strong" and "smart," but you won't just because they want you to. This is, however, not a goal that I will stop striving for if someone calls me a boy. It isn't preventing me from improving myself and isn't harming anyone, it is only helping me.

It's not dissimilar to how I view my therianthropy. I've had this discussion before. I do not think I'm truly a fox, I just desperately wish I was and I feel as if I should be. I am not truly male, you can't expect that I will be exactly like someone who is cis. My gender describes the set of sex characteristics that won't make me miserable, not an observation of which expectations I fit best. I understand why people feel that trans people are not truly their genders when they act more like the one corresponding to their sex, but ultimately our biology and how we are raised does affect us and that doesn't mean it isn't the most beneficial thing for our perceived genders to be treated as reality.

(2026-01-28 15:45)Parthias Wrote:  @Kaiyus Casster
That’s kind of interesting. I’m kind of the reverse. I have an interest in anthropomorphic animals, but I don’t consider myself a furry because I don’t participate in those spaces or any of the typical activities. I wonder if they would perceive the furry label as safer simply because it’s more widely known? I mean a label is a label and individuals are free to use one and not the other, it just seems kind of odd to me

I definitely noticed when I openly told ppl I was a furry I didn't get nearly as much hate as when I told my friends I was a therian so maybe its a similar fear, I do think furry being more widely known and more recently more accepted its a label more people latch too

(2026-01-29 3:22)Kaiyus Casster Wrote:  I definitely noticed when I openly told ppl I was a furry I didn't get nearly as much hate as when I told my friends I was a therian so maybe its a similar fear, I do think furry being more widely known and more recently more accepted its a label more people latch too

That makes a lot of sense. Plus I’m sure some the TikTok crowd probably gives some people a more negative impression of therians.

(2026-01-28 0:33)Zero Wrote:  It certainly is something that can make male friendship difficult, as when, for some reason or another, you can't do the formerly shared activity or do ti as often as you could in the past, don't be surprised if your male friends drop you like a sack of hot coal. I've had that happen many times. There's nothing malicious or personal about it. It's more that the reality is as you say, male socializing tends to revolve around shared activities so when that shared activity dwindles or stops, so does the friendship.

Yeah I can absolutely see that being the case. I think I have a somewhat masculine social approach? I meet most people through hobbies and most of my friends are men, and I do have a tendency to forget to keep in touch when out of context. I use regular, prescheduled furmeets near me as a friend-keeping guarantee. And I am generally more talkative in a setting involving my own or a shared hobby.

(2026-01-28 0:33)Zero Wrote:  My approach is kind of hybrid since I think shared activities are a good way to meet knew people and start to get to know them and create the foundation for a deeper friendship, and then after that point constantly Doing Things together doesn't have to be an emphasis, but as I've said, in practice it tends to not go well with men.

I think I'm similar, activities are a way to arrange stuff, but I still like to just spend time connecting for the sake of it. And this is usually achieved with very close friends of any gender.

(2026-01-28 0:33)Zero Wrote:  It's interesting how things changed. Back in the. day, it was generally reckoned that female autism didn't really exist. With the rise of the warrior cats fandom online in the mid teens, that seemed to be a solid counter-example that can't be denied, generally seeming to be the female autistic equivalent of what the Sonic fandom was to male autistic people in earlier eras. Those are stereotypes, of course, but they do have at least a kernel of truth to them. That's a tangent.

A tangent but a relevant one I think. The pieces of media that end up popular among autists (eg Sonic) are 1. a bit formulaic. 2. Have a roster of characters that are colour coded and come with listable stats/categories. There's something very pleasing about that. When I was a kid the tv programmes I obsessed over had colour coded characters and extremely formulaic episode formats.
Warrior cats has those elements plus is a bit girly because of talking fluffy animals. And I think "nerdy" girls are quite unlike their non-nerdy peers in that they also socialise through shared hobbies more often.

(2026-01-28 0:33)Zero Wrote:  One big counter-example that occurs to me is that historically the therian community was largely male dominated. From its inception all the way up to maybe 2010-2015 it was overwhelmingly male dominated. The influx of new people during the Tumblr era decisively shifted the demographics to the reverse. It is interesting to think about why. Why does it appeal so much to preteen and teen girls? Cultural factors I don't quite understand. I haven't bene a teenager in over ten years so I'm old and out of touch with these things.

The internet was male dominated until around 2010 because computers in general were still the realm of techy nerds. The more mainstream the internet is, more diverse interests get hosted including interests that attract women, I think.

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(2026-01-28 22:39)Snapdragon_ Wrote:  

(2025-02-23 11:19)DustWolf Wrote:  But I would like the reader to consider why the above is what we see? If online gender identification is genuine in the sense of someone claiming to be trans male being male, why does the majority of them seem to adhere to female behavioural stereotypes? If they didn't, the correlation mentioned above should be tied to gender and not sex, no?

Other queer folks have already commented on this, but as an AFAB trans guy I wanted to pitch in too.

...

Sorry if this is rambly, missing some points, or poorly structured. Im being very general with what I'm saying and am aware of that; no two people are gonna have the same experiences in life but there can be some trends because of the strict society we find ourselves in.
Also it's late, I'm sick for the umpteenth time this month, and I'm writing on my phone which is less than convenient. Please do question/debate anything I've said that sounds off

I'm pretty much of the opinion that social roles are reinforcements for what nature already built. Codifies it in a sense. But there's still no hard and fast rules about how everyone should act or needs to act. Nature creates the general trends and socialisation adds a bunch of extra detail and filler. Well meaning campaigns push for men to subvert expdctations and let themselves cry or talk about their feelings more, to push against the narrative that they should be stoic all the time. And such subversions can be acheived but only to an extent, enough to not he ashamed when crying. But testosterone directly affects how emotions are expressed and if you're T dominant then crying is quite sporadic.
And doing things to distract generally works better than delving into feelings talk.

(2026-01-28 0:33)Zero Wrote:  I'm pretty much of the opinion that social roles are reinforcements for what nature already built. Codifies it in a sense. But there's still no hard and fast rules about how everyone should act or needs to act. Nature creates the general trends and socialisation adds a bunch of extra detail and filler. Well meaning campaigns push for men to subvert expdctations and let themselves cry or talk about their feelings more, to push against the narrative that they should be stoic all the time. And such subversions can be acheived but only to an extent, enough to not he ashamed when crying. But testosterone directly affects how emotions are expressed and if you're T dominant then crying is quite sporadic.
And doing things to distract generally works better than delving into feelings talk.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was going for in my long-winded speech hehe
You worded it in a much more concise manner than I did

In my last reply to this thread, I detailed how the shift from online forums to social media is what enticed females into these communities but there's another side of the coin.

Aesthetic based social media such as Facebook and Instagram also gives young females bodily dysphoria because they are constantly comparing themselves to whatever image and behavior the internet deems to be the "ideal" woman.

It's no stretch to consider that there's only two main avenues a young female can travel down when she searches "I don't fit the ideal, I feel like I'm in the wrong body".

(2026-01-29 23:04)TJWolf Wrote:  In my last reply to this thread, I detailed how the shift from online forums to social media is what enticed females into these communities but there's another side of the coin.

Aesthetic based social media such as Facebook and Instagram also gives young females bodily dysphoria because they are constantly comparing themselves to whatever image and behavior the internet deems to be the "ideal" woman.

It's no stretch to consider that there's only two main avenues a young female can travel down when she searches "I don't fit the ideal, I feel like I'm in the wrong body".

Aye, I think that's a possible factor too.

(2026-01-27 17:41)Hemlock Wrote:  The point about furry artist is interesting, I wonder if there's an equivalent in the alterhuman community ? A specific subtype that would be composed of mostly male-at-birth folk ?
I have to admit I'm less categorical on this because i've also met a ton of nooks in alterhuman communities that are dominated by AMAB folk, but I acknowledge it might be luck of the draw. Specifically, draconic communities have a ton of transfem and cis male folks, but I do wonder if it's caused by the kind of mixed origin of dragon communities with dragon furries. (draconity.org was pretty equal furry and dragonkin, and this repeats in a lot of draconic spaces)

(2026-01-27 19:43)Lopori Wrote:  Re: subcommunities that lean amab, I was just about to answer that with dragons and then you already noted that yourself a few lines in. So yeah, seconding you on dragons. No idea why that is, I guess dragons are a bit masculine coded? RAWR FIRE BREATHING DRAGONS AND KNIGHTS AND SWORDS. Toy dragons tend to be sold as "boys' toys" more often.

As for the tiktok stuff, the first thing that comes to mind is how it caught on that might explain the afab lean? Teenage girls are the arbiters of what's cool, they're trendsetters, ideas spread like wildfire via them. Maybe it's partly that? Despite the similarity to furry. And interestingly, animal media like warrior cats appeals to girls for some reason.

I can also envision the gap closing somewhat over time because of exchange with furries.

Edit: the dragon thing got me really curious now about the gender distribution of soecific kintypes

Greetings... Draconity.org staff member and general dragon representative here....

I have met many, -many- dragonkin enough to confidently say what their common characteristics are. They are indeed some of the poster children of otherkin-ity, but they are also overwhelmingly AMAB. There are indeed trans female dragonkin (and I know more than a few) but not as much as you would expect from that high of a population (there's wayyyyy more for mammal/furry species). I also know some trans male dragonkin despite the tiny afab dragon population so... I would say it is also unique in that it is highly gender-dependent as well.

Older, more mature dragonkin tend towards traits most would associate with dragons... that being confidence, intelligence, isolation, self-reliance, and almost always a deep understanding of the world, including from a metaphysical standpoint. Elder dragons are almost always what would be considered "spritual" otherkin (and the most potent practitioners of such I've found to be dragons). This collective group of traits, this -power-, are extremely masculine from most human standpoints. What is interesting, though, is that such dragons are -not- performative and the thing that will get their attention the most and earn the most respect is to have deep discussions on the nature of things, including huge amounts of introspection. Don't get me wrong, they tend to not show emotions much at all as per the masculine norm, but introspection and love for deepness over activities is a common trait.

What largely unites both of the young and elder dragons, though, is an affinity for science. Younger dragons tend to have scientific backgrounds/jobs, with engineering and formal sciences being extraordinarily common. The "usual" dragonkin life path starting out as an intelligent individual who is good at math or science, pursuing that as a career path along with picking up many other interdisciplinary subjects along the way, and then eventually ending up pushing hard into metaphysics (especially things like philosophy, but also deep spirituality and more "solid" magical practices such as hermeticism as opposed to things like shamanism).

Oh, another thing, dragon artists tend to be overwhelmingly male as well. It does not have the largely AFAB art tendencies that both the furry and therian communities have.