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A Doggo Manifesto
Atlantis
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Post: #11
RE: A Doggo Manifesto
LycanTheory Wrote:  What's not more broadly known because it's all taken place behind the curtain is that we've made multiple attempts at being diplomatic with other communities such as Kinmunity and Othercon, only to have our good-faith efforts be rewarded with betreyal and back-stabbery by their administration.

Ah I wasn't meaning to imply it was TGs fault that the infighting happened, just that it does indeed happen, and I wish the therian and otherkin communities could be better than that. I recognize you guys tried your best with them which is why I'm not attending othercon. I don't think the fighting is coming from TG per say, just that it's part of it.
It feels like there really is two therians and two otherkins developing and they're on opposite sides of a war about what these words mean. It'd be so easy for so many people to get caught up in the tide without even realizing what's happening. I dunno, but I think in a realistic world not everyone would get to say willy nilly "I'm therian" and have immediate credence

Hiraeth
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2020-08-17 16:42
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LycanTheory
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Post: #12
RE: A Doggo Manifesto
(2020-08-17 16:42)Atlantis Wrote:  It feels like there really is two therians and two otherkins developing and they're on opposite sides of a war about what these words mean. It'd be so easy for so many people to get caught up in the tide without even realizing what's happening.

I agree. That's why explaining what's going on in therian and otherkin communities right now is so imperative.

I don't necessarily understand why people who choose to wear therian/otherkin as an identity to escape their reality don't simply find a place in a fandom or social club of their interest but regardless, without educating people as to why these communities are diverging, in full context, we can't expect anyone to make their own informed decision as to where they might stand.

The serious community is in good standing with academia which is a good thing. I hope were able to make some headway on that regard, soon, before we get washed out and diluted by people who do not share our experience of non-human.

Lyc

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2020-08-17 17:38
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elinox
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Post: #13
RE: A Doggo Manifesto
To be fair, there's always been a disconnect between "us" vs. "them" and who's more therian than whom. It's been that way ever since I entered the online therian community almost 20 years ago. I don't know why, but I have to assume it's because there are certain people/groups who just 1. don't get what being 'kin really is and 2. are deluding themselves into thinking they're 'kin (whether intentional or not, doesn't really matter) when they're simply not. I get the impression that it's a combination of #1 and #2, but is largely #2.

That being said, while I'm all for accepting people, there also needs to be some sort of a line somewhere.

It would be like me wishing with all my heart to be taller than 5'3"; I can wear taller shoes, I can try stretching myself, but at the end of the day, I can only be 5'3" and that's something I will need to learn to live with. It might not be ideal, or what I want, but the simple truth is that I am 5'3" and that's that.

Either you are 'kin, or you're not, and either one is fine. But pretending to be something you're not is pointless and is a waste of everyone's time. Being 'kin is not cool, is not a trend, is not a coping mechanism or escapism; it is a real experience that we did not choose!

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2020-08-18 0:45
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Tdae
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Post: #14
RE: A Doggo Manifesto
(2020-08-16 17:02)SheilaGrace Wrote:  I noticed the 'desire for recognition from others' is really toxic for me. When it came out of my control, anytime I did something bad. So I'm trying my best to control it. I can't kill it off completely, but at least I can reduce it. And as long as it is under my control, maybe I don't make some big mistakes.
I think, those who cannot do that self-control are causing some issues. Maybe regardless of what nation or culture they're based on. But... it is really sad if those who cannot is the majority, and ganging up to justify their inability... Sad

SheilaGrace, this comment is like a missing puzzle piece that I've been looking for, thank you. In the US politics and I assume elsewhere, people behave as if they are being herded into corrals. I'm always observing and wondering about the psychology of how crowd-control works. Is has become clear to me that "identity" is a powerful tool for crowd-control, I just couldn't figure out why. From your words I understand that for some people the need for recognition is so strong that it can be used to manipulate them and it makes them kind of crazy.

So... to not be manipulated and controlled for someone's agenda, we need to be aware of our weaknesses, and like Lycan says love is important for resistance.
2020-08-18 13:02
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Post: #15
RE: A Doggo Manifesto
I personally think, at least in Japan, there was a huge 'tacit understanding' between those who ganging up for aiming notability.
Like, 'I promote you so you follow me and never oppose. Then both of us will get better influence around. Win-Win relationship'. And after they made this back-scratching alliance, they justified their every action by some kind of 'majority decision'. And seized control of the whole of the community, and modified it as they want.
Most of the cases, the atmosphere got broken and corrupted just after it happened. And they abandoned the community after they harvested what they want. Most of the cases it was somewhat financial benefits or more influence on the other platforms. Then the offenders left, and the damaged community and project founder got left behind. Of course, the community died just after that. Many platforms, projects, and communities got killed by those vultures. I saw this phenomenon again and again in Japanese furry's communities.

The worst thing is, they justified their action by financial benefits or influence they won. Japanese general people tend to overrate the money or influence, especially the follower number on Twitter or Facebook. And people blindly believe that big name's saying is right. For the majority of Japanese people, the money they made or the follower number they got is the parameter of one's reliability. Most people are addicted to getting those. And if someone opposes that, they'll get attacked. And even someone makes something great work but if they couldn't make enough financial benefit or number, they rather get rated low, or rather get attacked as well. Maybe because someone wants to spoil the seed of new talents, to secure their influence.

Well, to be fair enough. I mention I don't know the current situation at all. It happened about 15 years ago. Once, Japanese online communities were like that.
I hope the situation got changed after I left. And... I'm really sad if the same phenomenon is happening in US, especially around therian or otherkin's communities. Sad


Maybe, someone thinks it is the chance to get famous in something new genre if it is not developed enough yet.

To be honest, I thought the same way when I joined the internet. It was about 20 years ago. Most of home use lines were ISDN. The mainstream was relying on much more primitive CGI based platforms that build for old type cellphones. It was before SNS rose up.
Therefore. I felt there is a huge frontier that awaits us to reclaim. I thought I can do something in the huge blank space which awaits me to build up to something. Yeah, that was my youthful days.
But I was just a young kid who barely knew anything. I didn't know how the world's current state, how the culture and nation went through, and what happened before I was born.
Just... I wanted to prove myself, because I couldn't get enough score on the school. I just wanted to say that even if I couldn't get enough results on the exams but still I have something I'm good at. About my writing or art. Even no one around me rated me enough, but there are someone who can find my true worth in somewhere around the world. I just wished so. I felt infinity opportunities on the internet.

Well, but I did something really childish bad mistakes just after I joined the internet, though. And I messed up my own effort by myself. It was my own fault XD
Perhaps, it is a really common event anyone goes through at least one time.

Maybe, those who couldn't correct and improve themselves from that event is still causing some issues. Still, the actual age is a certain measure to estimate one's mental state. But also we all can stay at the childish level regardless of the physical body's age.

In an idealistic talk, we all should desire to be capable adults. Train well, learn well, and play well, to make our respective lifetime worthwhile. It is what all of us should work on, regardless of species, gender, nation, culture, religion, or whatever any of tiny differences. And being an adult is just expanding one's ability. Then naturally we can understand the others well, and it'll be a big chance to accept the others, regardless of those tiny differences.

When I was young, I refused to be the same with those dirty adults who didn't hesitate to do something bad but excusing with 'everyone is doing this, so what's wrong with I'm doing the same'.
Now I got enough old, but I really wish I could be enough capable adult who can refuse to do something bad. I really want to be a good, capable, and well-experienced adult wolfdog. To take care of the others enough. Smile

I noticed that being an adult doesn't mean we have to be human. I want to be an adult, but wolfdog adult. Wink

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2020-08-18 16:39
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Nova_The_Therian
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Post: #16
RE: A Doggo Manifesto
(2020-08-18 0:45)elinox Wrote:  To be fair, there's always been a disconnect between "us" vs. "them" and who's more therian than whom. It's been that way ever since I entered the online therian community almost 20 years ago. I don't know why, but I have to assume it's because there are certain people/groups who just 1. don't get what being 'kin really is and 2. are deluding themselves into thinking they're 'kin (whether intentional or not, doesn't really matter) when they're simply not. I get the impression that it's a combination of #1 and #2, but is largely #2.

That being said, while I'm all for accepting people, there also needs to be some sort of a line somewhere.

It would be like me wishing with all my heart to be taller than 5'3"; I can wear taller shoes, I can try stretching myself, but at the end of the day, I can only be 5'3" and that's something I will need to learn to live with. It might not be ideal, or what I want, but the simple truth is that I am 5'3" and that's that.

Either you are 'kin, or you're not, and either one is fine. But pretending to be something you're not is pointless and is a waste of everyone's time. Being 'kin is not cool, is not a trend, is not a coping mechanism or escapism; it is a real experience that we did not choose!

Very well said! I like the height reference too. People want attention, and they will try to get it even if it means calling themselves something they are not.

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2020-08-18 16:39
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Post: #17
RE: A Doggo Manifesto
I served on Anthrocon staff for five years. During my time there, I could feel the changes happening, every year felt a little bit worse. It really fell off the metaphorical cliff described in the original post.

It used to feel like a place where you could really express yourself. Now it feels like, "you can express yourself unless there is a remote chance that it may offend someone," A new generation has come in and they are like "Hello, you don't belong here anymore!"

I think it could be a side effect of how large the fandom has grown, the larger conventions got, the more time it was in the public eye, the more pressure was felt to present a nice clean face to the world.

Having something like that happen to the therian community would be a tragedy and ultimately hurt the people who have a real need for places like Therian Guide.

I support the idea that we should not seek or need acceptance by the public. A lot of very raw and heavy emotions can come out as people share their experiences here. There is no need for the public to be privvy to those things.

I am for educating people that show a genuine curiosity, but do not put on a pretty face on it.
2020-08-19 2:17
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