(2024-03-10 10:53)DustWolf Wrote:  

(2024-03-10 8:31)Siris Wrote:  I honestly believe anyone who feels less validated or threatened by questioning (note I will be distinguishing between "questioning" and "grilling" here) needs to take a moment and ask themselves why they are upset. Are they simply upset because it is uncomfortable or do they feel like they must prove something. If the answer is you feel you need to prove something then you should probably (to be blunt) step away. If you are living your truth and what you actually believe there is nothing that needs proving to you or anyone, the only proof needed is that you are being honest with yourself and that includes admitting when you were wrong or do not know. If you feel uncomfortable you need to ask yourself why it feels uncomfortable. Are you uncomfortable because you feel challenged?

While I accept this was probably your point, I just wanted to point out that as a "psychological" therian, who has known about his therianthropy for 25+ years as well, I was at no point confident about my therianthropy.

I think that the text above could be misconstrued as to mean that to be a therian, you need to be confident that you are living your truth, but you know... that's not how it works.

Back in the day when I discovered my therianthropy on AHWw, it was very normal for the existing community to be exceedingly skeptical about whether or not you were really a therian. Like today, they also got a bunch of newcomers all claiming to be wolves and mostly just sounding like out of control teenagers. And there I was, a wolf therian and teenage human.

I mean yes, I was picked at by people who enjoyed feeling control over others and was seriously affected (I was afraid they were somehow going to take away the friends I have made with other young people who thought they might be wolf therians there) and I don't think that was really something you'd want to allow today. But, what I wanted to say is that for years I never felt like if someone asked me to prove my therianthropy, that I could.

I come from a science-minded family, as a kid at dinner we'd have debates and challenge each other critically. I never dared talk about therianthropy in front of them. But the thing is, I knew if I tried having a debate like that about therianthropy, I couldn't prove that I was one. I couldn't prove that this wasn't really just all in my head or a phase or something.

It was only several years later, that I became comfortable with my therianthropy, when I came to the conclusion that no matter how therianthropy was explained away, my therian experiences would never change.


So... I think expecting our pups to be comfortable in their beliefs and "living their truth", when we know they'd had less than a decade of trying to understand what they feel, is a bit of a stretch.

If you challenged me about my therianthropy some years ago, before I became comfortable with the idea, I'd be just as offended as the next guy.

LP,
Dusty

Absolutely right Dusty and it is poorly worded, my mistake for posting at 4am when I can't sleep. What ibwas trying to get at is truth will speak for itself and one should not be afraid of seeking it. Basically if there is a reason you are not confident in that truth then you should question it and follow where it will lead. Ultimately you will either find validation and become confident in it or new information will come to light and you will adjust your ideas to be more true. The comment was directed at building to confidence not having it from the outset and I apologize for it not being worded better.

Merged these 3 threads, as they are speaking on the same topic.

Please use the search function to find existing threads before posting new ones, especially in Introduction to Therianthropy where information should be easily available.

(2024-03-10 8:31)Siris Wrote:  I honestly believe anyone who feels less validated or threatened by questioning (note I will be distinguishing between "questioning" and "grilling" here) needs to take a moment and ask themselves why they are upset. Are they simply upset because it is uncomfortable or do they feel like they must prove something. If the answer is you feel you need to prove something then you should probably (to be blunt) step away. If you are living your truth and what you actually believe there is nothing that needs proving to you or anyone, the only proof needed is that you are being honest with yourself and that includes admitting when you were wrong or do not know. If you feel uncomfortable you need to ask yourself why it feels uncomfortable. Are you uncomfortable because you feel challenged?

While I accept this was probably your point, I just wanted to point out that as a "psychological" therian, who has known about his therianthropy for 25+ years as well, I was at no point confident about my therianthropy.

I think that the text above could be misconstrued as to mean that to be a therian, you need to be confident that you are living your truth, but you know... that's not how it works.

Back in the day when I discovered my therianthropy on AHWw, it was very normal for the existing community to be exceedingly skeptical about whether or not you were really a therian. Like today, they also got a bunch of newcomers all claiming to be wolves and mostly just sounding like out of control teenagers. And there I was, a wolf therian and teenage human.

I mean yes, I was picked at by people who enjoyed feeling control over others and was seriously affected (I was afraid they were somehow going to take away the friends I have made with other young people who thought they might be wolf therians there) and I don't think that was really something you'd want to allow today. But, what I wanted to say is that for years I never felt like if someone asked me to prove my therianthropy, that I could.

I come from a science-minded family, as a kid at dinner we'd have debates and challenge each other critically. I never dared talk about therianthropy in front of them. But the thing is, I knew if I tried having a debate like that about therianthropy, I couldn't prove that I was one. I couldn't prove that this wasn't really just all in my head or a phase or something.

It was only several years later, that I became comfortable with my therianthropy, when I came to the conclusion that no matter how therianthropy was explained away, my therian experiences would never change.


So... I think expecting our pups to be comfortable in their beliefs and "living their truth", when we know they'd had less than a decade of trying to understand what they feel, is a bit of a stretch.

If you challenged me about my therianthropy some years ago, before I became comfortable with the idea, I'd be just as offended as the next guy.

LP,
Dusty

I honestly believe anyone who feels less validated or threatened by questioning (note I will be distinguishing between "questioning" and "grilling" here) needs to take a moment and ask themselves why they are upset. Are they simply upset because it is uncomfortable or do they feel like they must prove something. If the answer is you feel you need to prove something then you should probably (to be blunt) step away. If you are living your truth and what you actually believe there is nothing that needs proving to you or anyone, the only proof needed is that you are being honest with yourself and that includes admitting when you were wrong or do not know. If you feel uncomfortable you need to ask yourself why it feels uncomfortable. Are you uncomfortable because you feel challenged? Then see about proving. Are you uncomfortable because you are unsure of your conclusion? Good! We are talking about questions on identity here and that is going to be, to some degree, necessarily uncomfortable territory. You will be digging into your own thoughts, actions, psyche, etc. very deeply and it is highly unlikely you will like everything you find, but that is also part of the point! Part of this journey is learning to accept yourself for who you are, perfections and imperfections being of equal value, and only then will you be able to be truly honest about yourself. So answer any questions that may be asked truthfully and honestly even if the answer makes you uncomfortable or you just simply do not know. But, and this is a big one, understand people are not required to believe you or take your answers at face value. It is entirely possible to not believe what a person says but still respect what they believe. And this is the crux of questioning, being mindful and respectful of the person on the other end, and grilling, digging with no regard for the other. We are here as a community to learn and grow and to do so there will need to be some necessary adversity for all of us. I, like many others, miss the spirit of questioning but do not miss the grilling so in spirit of this I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. I have created a thread here where I invite everyone, especially the younger members, to see exactly what I have been saying.

I actually address this in this thread. I do believe that we as a community do bare some blame for this in how we have tried to present ourselves to the world at large. The best solution I can come up with is we need to start presenting a more comprehensive show of what therianthropy is, warts and all.

(2024-03-09 20:43)WanderingForests Wrote:  I made a post about this a few days ago, but not very many people replied to it, so I'm glad this one has a lot of people replying because I think this needs to be talked about.

I've heard people say 'fake therians/misinfo isn't a problem' before, and it always kinda annoys me how ignorant people can be. Here's why I believe it's a problem:

Misinfo is an issue because it leads to fakes or misinformed therians. Why is that an issue? There are many reasons. One is that it leads to regular humans thinking bad things about us. Which wouldn't be a problem if they would just give us dirty looks or poke fun at us, but it goes further than that. People get assaulted, attacked, doxxed and among other things for being a therian. If you're saying that misinfo and fakes aren't a problem, then you're indirectly saying that people getting jumped isn't a problem.
Not only does misinfo and fakes effect how humans think of us, but it also effects our community. It's not a real community of therians if half of them are just pretending, is it? How is it fair to the REAL therians if we let fake ones parade around and make a joke out of us, or basically invalidate our identity and say it's just a game/trend?
"Just let kids be kids"
Oh, but it's different when someone pretends to have depression or ADHD or DID? Then it's serious. Then it's bad for the community. Then it's bad for their reputation. No matter what someone is faking, they are directly harming every member of that community.
By faking something or letting misinfo run wild, you are also harming other normal kids. You like animals? Oh, you must be a therian. Pretended to be a dog when you were 4? Yep, you're a therian. Throwing someone into an identity that isn't them and trying to make them believe the wrong thing is just a bad thing to do. Especially because realizing you are a therian can be upsetting for some people. I didn't want to be a therian. I don't want to be a therian. I still hate myself for it, sometimes. Forcing someone to go through that who isn't even a therian or who doesn't even have the correct definition of therianthropy is such a cruel thing to do. It's often extremely isolating to be a therian.
So overall: MISINFO IS BAD.

Sorry if any of this came off as aggressive, this is just a very upsetting topic for me.

I agree and disagree with your points. I don't think comparing faking therianthropy to faking mental illness is an appropriate comparison to make, but I kind of understand where you're coming from.

Quote:People get assaulted, attacked, doxxed and among other things for being a therian.

I've actually never heard of this happening to someone specifically because they were a therian. There are a lot of stories circulating around, but non have very hard proof.
The only example of assault on a therian I've seen was not because they were a therian, the kids thought they were a furry. It doesn't sound important, but I feel it kind of is in this topic. Humans will attack everyone seen as different. Most don't even know what a therian is.
I do not dislike misinformation and fake therians because of how it affects outside perception of the community, I dislike it because it damages the internal community that so many people have worked so hard to build.
Other than those things though, I mostly agree with what you're saying.

I made a post about this a few days ago, but not very many people replied to it, so I'm glad this one has a lot of people replying because I think this needs to be talked about.

I've heard people say 'fake therians/misinfo isn't a problem' before, and it always kinda annoys me how ignorant people can be. Here's why I believe it's a problem:

Misinfo is an issue because it leads to fakes or misinformed therians. Why is that an issue? There are many reasons. One is that it leads to regular humans thinking bad things about us. Which wouldn't be a problem if they would just give us dirty looks or poke fun at us, but it goes further than that. People get assaulted, attacked, doxxed and among other things for being a therian. If you're saying that misinfo and fakes aren't a problem, then you're indirectly saying that people getting jumped isn't a problem.
Not only does misinfo and fakes effect how humans think of us, but it also effects our community. It's not a real community of therians if half of them are just pretending, is it? How is it fair to the REAL therians if we let fake ones parade around and make a joke out of us, or basically invalidate our identity and say it's just a game/trend?
"Just let kids be kids"
Oh, but it's different when someone pretends to have depression or ADHD or DID? Then it's serious. Then it's bad for the community. Then it's bad for their reputation. No matter what someone is faking, they are directly harming every member of that community.
By faking something or letting misinfo run wild, you are also harming other normal kids. You like animals? Oh, you must be a therian. Pretended to be a dog when you were 4? Yep, you're a therian. Throwing someone into an identity that isn't them and trying to make them believe the wrong thing is just a bad thing to do. Especially because realizing you are a therian can be upsetting for some people. I didn't want to be a therian. I don't want to be a therian. I still hate myself for it, sometimes. Forcing someone to go through that who isn't even a therian or who doesn't even have the correct definition of therianthropy is such a cruel thing to do. It's often extremely isolating to be a therian.
So overall: MISINFO IS BAD.

Sorry if any of this came off as aggressive, this is just a very upsetting topic for me.

(2024-03-08 19:51)Bagera Wrote:  Many kids seem to latch on to types and change them on a whim. They collect them due to any experience they have, from simply relating to an animal, to feeling they have a shift a couple of times. The worst of it I've seen are people who collect fictional types, or systems, which back in the day were exceptionally rare to non existent.

I don't wholly blame children to latching onto things they relate to strongly, as that's what kids do in this period of their lives. And yes, you can relate to something so strongly that you feel like it's you. This is common in children and people who have issues of identity/not knowing who they are. It's especially telling if someone changes types frequently. But that doesn't mean that it's -you-. Characters are meant to be highly relatable, you do yourself a disservice to throw away who you are to take on the persona of someone else.

This is why questioning and introspection are necessary skills to be taught. Most of you will grow out of this (therianthropy/otherkin as a whole) by the time you reach adulthood because, and I know this may be upsetting to hear, it is a phase for most children. And again, there's nothing wrong with kids trying on different things to see what fits. That's part of growing up.

I think what really spurred me to post this though is that there's such a huge influx of people that fall into this that it becomes kind of nonsensical, and becomes difficult to exist in therian spaces anymore because any attempt at trying to question is met with hostility and fear. It's as if people are afraid to face themselves. I have seen many young members outright say that it makes them uncomfortable to question themselves/be questioned by others in this way. This isn't right, it's not healthy. The point of this community is education and growth, and you can't grow if you do not attempt to know yourselves truly.

I wish more people talked about this.

As a child therian, it's frustrating to see so many young therians immediately jumping to conclusions on theriotypes and assuming that if they feel this way now, they automatically will feel this way for the rest of their life. I have had to explain this to multiple people before. Yes, I identify as a therian because it fits my experiences. But do I think I will still identify as a therian when I'm old and gray? Who knows. So many kids have phases like this, so many people were certain that they were therians when it turned out that they weren't, there's no real way to tell how I'll feel in 4 years when I'm a legal adult, and how I'll feel for the rest of my life. Just because I've felt like this for the entire beginning of my life and have been in the community for two years doesn't mean that it still couldn't turn out to just be a phase or something.
I often find myself taking a step back to look at my experiences and asking myself questions about how I feel to check to see if I'm a therian or if a theriotype I'm questioning really fits me. I've seen people who decide that they're a red fox therian because they had a dream where they were a red fox. Sure, a red fox therian might have a dream about being a red fox, but solely basing your identity on dreams you've had, no offense, is not a very good way to tell.

I could write SO MUCH MORE on this topic but I think I need to cut myself off here before I accidentally write a whole entire book on here lol.

Therianthropy is considered "real" because there's behaviors we experience that are tied to our theriotypes. It's not considered a delusion, because we understand we are physically humans, and therianthropy isn't inherently harmful, it can actually be quite helpful when you realize what therianthropy is, and realize that your behaviors finally have a name.

What makes a therian, I have a couple theories.
1. Trauma in early childhood (doesn't necessarily make a therian, but it could make someone who is born human-minded but slightly more animalistic, into more of a "full therian")
2. Neurodevelopmental disorders, especially autism (I think these may just make it more obvious)
3. Ya just are (I suspect this is the most common)

Hi! So I want to make this thread to take a deep dive into therianthropy. What is a therian? What makes a therian? What makes them not fake? These are only a few questions to be answered. I also make this thread to help inform new members or people in general who wish to learn about the community. Creating an informational page for the new members I believe would be helpful. Just throw some QnA and hopefully this may help questioning therians, the other hearted, and parents/supporters.

Sincerely,
Sunny