(2022-05-07 6:45)DustWolf Wrote:  

(2022-05-07 3:15)Liatha Wrote:  Reincarnation and past lives do not fit that. Reincarnation works (according to Eastern traditions) in a certain way. It is not very likely that the animal will incarnate in humans immediately afterwards. I'm sorry I might cause doubts to someone. But just find out more about past lives.

So we talked about this on Discord some time ago, but to explain what @Liatha is saying here. Eastern traditions say that what you reincarnate as, depends on your "good deeds for the community" (simplified) in your previous life. Since animals live by instinct and cannot choose to do good deeds for the community, it doesn't seem possible for an animal (below on the scale) to reincarnate as a human (above on the scale).

Other people in our conversation, like @Li-lan have argued that what "reincarnation" is (aka "being born again in another body" rather than "reincarnation" the religious concept), is not owned by any religious group and therefore what the Eastern traditions say about it does not matter.

Thinking about it now, I also find myself wondering, since I believe animals can make choices in their lives: Perhaps it's possible for animals to do "good deeds for the community" (dharma). I mean outside of pets attending religious duties with their owners. Could a dog in what she does for her family be considered to engage in dharma?

LP,
Dusty

So yes, Considering the fact that reincarnation requires good deeds for the community, we could not have been reincarnated from animals to humans unless we somehow do good deeds as an animal with carnal instincts.
But, I've been doing some research after being intrigued by this subject.
When you research certain types of reincarnation, they tell you different things, and the one with your definition is normally considered to be for humans.
If you begin to dig into reincarnation with animals, you find a bunch of stuff related again, to karma, with no research. This is a bit hard to prove with citation, but after looking for a while, I've found that there are a lot of different theories, and this is the most backed up one.
As a soul, you are a contentiousness, without a mind or body. You are a spirit. Or, an "atma". With this in mind, you would have the want to become or think something like something else.
With the thought of reincarnation in mind, if you were to want to live the life of an animal, you would become the animal.
Your soul would become a resident inside the body and mind.
Once you die, you would go back, your continuousness freed from the bounds of a certain mind's structures.
As a soul again, you would look back at yourself, and be ready to become another body. You would be judged yes, but not by the same boundaries.
In Saṃsāra, or the resurrection cycle, you are judged by karma.
A person with better deeds done has the chance of being reincarnated as a higher being, with a human being the highest being considered.
But if you were to judge a human considered to a cat, you would find that the human would be in a more varied judging scale.
The human has a mind with practically no boundaries. A cat relies on instincts, as you said.
If you were to judge both on the same scale, it would always be nearly impossible for the cat to get high karma. The human could choose.
According to the research I've done, there is a Karma scale, due to the restrictions given to animals, including not having the gift of full free will, and not fully knowing the consequences.
So an animal is judged by it's capacities.

There is another theory though. One theory is that the life of an animal is paying for your past karma. It simply means that if you had a bad past life, you pay for it in an animal life. After that, your karma is reset and you live another life as a human. This one is a lot less researched, and seems a bit harder to prove, but it is a theory.

Just a quick thing I wanted to say, sorry if I offended anyone by posting this. I just wanted to do some research on a couple common theories.

Been looking for some ideas to put in my journal on this forum. I like your ideas, and may use them!

Edit: Realised this post was made in 2023... whoops!

I thought about some research prompts that can be cool to think about:

•if your theriotype(s) is/are existent and is/are not common pet(s), where could you find it in real life? (sometimes you can find out there are specimen of your theriotype in some park or ecological reserve relatively closer to you than you thought.) And following this topic...
•What would be/was your reaction if/when you meet your theriotype in real life?

I know that's an old post, but I really like the list and I would like to contribute with it

For a short time, I considered myself a misanthropist. I truly felt a negative energy for humans — some dark conglomeration of hurt, anger, resentment and jealousy. I believe growing up neurodivergent definitely played a part in shaping this belief. After being hurt by humans for so long and for such baseless reasons, you begin to feel a distinct hatred for them.

But I realised that I probably felt like this simply because I didn't understand humans. With all their strange normative behaviours and how cruel they could be, I looked at them, and I looked at myself, and I missed the similarities. But I still had family, and friends, and people — humans — that cared. We're not all bad.

A few years later, having learnt how to interact more efficiently with them, I finally began to relate to my species more. Nowadays, I crave social interactions, I crave the following of social rules, and I find myself doing very distinctly human things in order to survive. I still feel a disconnect from them, for sure — I may blend in better, but I still do not identify with them. But as I've come to appreciate the good things we do for each other, the extra lengths some humans go to to extend kindness, warmth and empathy toward one another, that old feeling of hatred begins to melt. I'm very thankful for this.

In summary, I don't think you have to necessarily understand humans to love them. But you have to feel misunderstood by humans to hate them. I think by determining for ourselves where that line between hatred and a simple feeling of 'otherness' is drawn, we can pick apart which feelings may be misanthropic, and which might simply just be an effect of being misunderstood / outcasted. I've never believed in generalising large groups of anything — just like all leopards have different spots, all humans have different personalities and intentions. Some may seriously suck and do some crappy things, but that's not all of them. I have to recognise the good in the people that truly exemplify it.

This is my two cents, I'm curious to hear what others have to say. And thank you for making this thread, I think it's a very important question and I appreciate how much depth it has.

XX,
KK.

At one point, I considered myself a misanthrope, but not anymore. When I was younger and still learning about everything going on in the world, I definitely adopted a singular sort of hatred towards humans. As I've gotten older I've learned it's more complicated than good and evil, and have come to appreciate the humans in my life and the diversity of humans across the world.

That being said, I see it as a separate thing from my therianthropy. My misanthropy developed as a response to hearing about what was going on in the world and not having the maturity to really digest the information. It was also made worse by the fact that I was going through a difficult time at home and at school, so I didn't have someone to point and go "hey, not all humans are bad!" I see my therianthropy as being something I was born with that was exacerbated by trauma. Maybe being nonhuman made it easier for me to be a misanthrope, but I believe I still would have been one regardless.

That isn't to say that I believe misanthropy is an inherently childish view, just that for me, it was an opinion I formed without a greater understanding. I understand the reasons others here have for disliking humans, and I myself still disagree with a lot of common moral or societal standards that they hold.

I don’t experience dislike of humans in general (of course there are certain people I don’t like very much), but I do wish they’d be a little more accepting of who I am.

I think that this is a very interesting topic and I'm enjoying the variety of perspectives!

I am not a misanthrope because I think that there are so many flavours of human out there. I don't want to downplay anyones misanthropy because I totally understand it, but I think it's easier to be a misanthrope when you're unhappy with the society that you're in and only know of.

I moved from the US to Germany at the age of 23 and I can say that if I had stayed in the US, I probably would have been a bit misanthropic myself. I was very unhappy with the society around me and the humans that I saw felt so unrelateable. However, being in a new society has kind of shown me a new light. Germany isn't perfect by any means, but the humans here I find live a life more similar to how I prefer it. I don't see myself as human still obviously, but I can coexist with them here much easier than if I were in the US.

This obviously doesn't encompass those who have a general disdain towards humans and society as a whole in the big picture of all the humans on Earth. There are certainly things that I find rather silly that humans try to do regardless of where they're from, but I don't think that it necessarily drove me to find my therianthropy. I feel different from them for many reasons that aren't related to morals of humans.

with all that said, I think some of this is partly because of being a domesticated dog. I'm just kind of used to the humans. If anything that's why it took me so long to find my therianthropy because I felt different from them but didn't quite feel a driving hatred or alienation that some have felt that helped them search for their true identity.


Haley

I think for me, my therianthropy is what caused my misanthropy. So the other way around!

I didn't innately hate humans as a young fox, I just knew that I was different to all the other kids around me and couldn't fit in with them. It was only as I got older (about my early teens) and began to learn more about society, watch the news etc, that I felt more distrust and alienation from humanity.

I am not severely misanthropic. I believe that humans are capable of kindness, and I appreciate some of the gentler aspects of humanity like the creation of art, some of their social bonding behaviours, and their desire to help species other than our own (even those we typically eat). Humans are capable of a lot of good, and since I am human in body (and partially in mind), I try to feed into those positive aspects.

However, I still feel a tang of disgust when someone refers to me as a human. Humans have harmed the planet irrepairably, and continuously fight and hate amongst themselves for no necessary reason. Humans are uniquely greedy, sadistic, and unjust in a way that most other animals are not. A fox might chase another fox out of a territory with better food resources to feed themselves & their kits, but they will not enact a war on an entire forest just for the sake of power or personal gratification. They just want to survive.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

For me, this feeling of mistrust and dislike for humanity stems from me being a fox. I think we therians tend to see the world through a different lens to most humans, and as a result it's common for misanthropy to follow. I see how misanthropy could result in identifying as an alterhuman too, but I do think there needs to be an underlying, pre-existing animality for it to manifest that way.

- Fern

As Ouch said, humans are variable. I can't bring myself to hate the entire species because I am fond of many. I also enjoy the quiet, humble parts of existing as a human. Human connection, empathy, art, singing, gardening, etc. Though I completely understand the perspective, humanity has caused a lot of harm.

I understand why individuals who are misanthropes and separate humans from animals may lean towards therianthropy as an identity. It's an explanation for why humanity is so unappealing to them. But I do not believe it directly causes therianthropy, just points some in the right direction if the identity is there, as you said. Not all misanthropes experience therianthropy.

I also have a slightly different perspective than many folks here when it comes to humans and animals. I do not separate humans from animals, but I do see humans as having a spectrum when it comes to connection with the rest of life on Earth. I still use the words "animality" and "animal" to refer to my nonhuman identity because they seem to be the most accurate words in this language to describe my experience.

In my mind, humans and other species on Earth are more similar than many realize. This doesn't mean that humans are the same as a bear, though. They are still different, just like an eagle is different than a cat. I still identify as a wolverine. I just see humans and all inhabitants of Earth differently than the typical Western perspective of "people" versus "the wild."

This might contribute to my lack of misanthropy.

This is a very interesting question! I know lots of therians have had issues with humans so I'd love to see more discussion about it.

As for me, I would say I am the opposite of a misathrope, and I attribute it to my angelhood. I find humans to be cute and I want to help and care for them. Even when they hurt me I cannot hold a grudge against them, much like how you can't hold a grudge if your cat scratches you. They don't know what they are doing.

In terms of my mountain lion half, I'm neutral towards humans. I do my thing and they do theirs.

As a whole I also disagree with misanthropy as a concept because humans are such a varied species. There exist no behaviors that are exclusive to humans and also practiced by every human. If you travel to the other side of the planet, the humans on that side think entirely different from the ones on the other. I cannot hate humanity as a whole, just specific things that some humans do.