First of all, I want OP to understand that this is not meant as a personal attack on them. I recognize that they were likely taught that these statements were true by others, and I am not angry with them(or anyone else who adopted these ideas). Both they, and you, are of course welcome to rebutt my statements and/or disagree as long as the discussion remains civil. Critical analysis is important.
---------------------------------

This topic has started to concern me greatly, as I have seen this idea promoted in other spaces(primarily reddit and tumblr) in connection with what I view as a form of group-think (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) and the promotion of ideas that do not align with mainstream medical or psychological views. ...And before anyone thinks that I've missed the point, I haven't; I am aware that the majority of people who seem to have adopted these terms(including OP) are not actually claiming to perceive themselves as biologically being a nonhuman animal. However, this association is presented, or alluded to, in nearly all of the community writings about these terms.

These terms seem to have originated during the tumblr-era, and gained new traction during the past year from what I have been able to dig up about them. The oldest mention of "Physical Therianthropy" I am aware of is from 2016, and "Holothere" was coined a year ago. The technical arguments I've seen in-favor of them appear to be identical, and Holothere is stated as being an alternative term for "Physical Therianthropy" that was intended, at least in part, for those who perceive themselves as being physiologically/materially an animal (and yes, this includes p-shifters because many describe themselves as being animals, not just "transforming humans"..).

About the arguments in favor of these:

Most of the writings promoting the idea of physical therianthropy use a red-herring argument to confuse the reader about the meaning of the word "physical". The most prevalent is one that attempts to conflate the neurobiological theories of gender with the idea of attributing physicality to aspects of the sense-of-Self. This argument uses a logical fallacy to misrepresent the ideas presented by academics in order to make the reader feel uncertain they understand the meaning of the word "physical". Many of us in the community are transgender individuals (myself included), and these ideas were targeted at that fact to appeal to the widest audience.

A second popular logical fallacy is also often associated with these terms; and has served to promote them to the more general therian community:
The basic argument is that if you see yourself as an animal, then your body must also be that of an animal (i.e. because an animal "owns" it, it is an animal's body). Therefore, it should be accepted as physical (but not biological). This appears to be OP's stance.

I know this has confused a lot of us, because--while we may feel that emotionally--the idea doesn't track logically, so you might be wondering if you may have missed alternative meanings for the words "physical", "biological", "gender", or you might even be wondering if identity is expansive in this way..

However, you likely already know the meanings of these words, and those meanings have not changed; there is no new information about them being presented that differs from the dictionary. The reason why so many of the community writings describing "Physical Therianthropy" seem so confusing is because they're presenting "almost-correct, but not quite" statements intended to sound authoritative so that the reader will be swayed into agreeing with them. Most arguments are attempts to sway the reader to a certain conclusion(including my own), but this one provides false narratives that portray the definitions of words as subjectively-defined when they are not(i.e. "I reject your reality and substitute my own"), these words have clear, objectively-defined meanings (the definition of physical is here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/physical ). You likely didn't misunderstand anything, the idea is just being misrepresented.

You can view an example of these arguments being used together in a community writing here:: https://epochryphal.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/on-physically-nonhuman/ It begins by presenting relatable ideas regarding how gender is spoken of casually online, then slowly introduces arguments that degrade and confuse the concepts before finally conflating a version of "I don't mean biologically" with "Yes, also biologically" halfway through, and linking questioning of that logical disconnect to ableism. The issues I have with this are not just about the power dynamics related to p-shifting claims that the author describes, but about misrepresenting when an objectively untrue statement about reality is being made and then encouraging others to validate it; those power dynamics did not appear out of thin air, nor were they only confined to p-shifting claims (I discuss this later under "how we got here").

What I've been hearing/seeing people saying:
All of those I've talked to, or read statements from, described simply preferring the word "physical" and are using it in the same way as "visceral" to mean a deep-seated and all-permeating sense of their animality, but the substitution with "physical" is--as many have noted--an incorrect use of this word. Most have also mentioned that they adopted these terms to effectively "separate themselves from the fluff" (the non-serious people); they want their experiences to be acknowledged for having the same level of seriousness they regard them with.. I do get this, as I am one of those people myself; I am a wolf/fox with no qualifiers attached.

For the most part, this is commonly understood to fall under Therianthropy, which is why so many of us keep saying that.. Most here view ourselves as the animal, though much of the community now uses "I identify as.." to say it, which is fine as long as the meaning is still being understood. I imagine that the reason why people are using "physical" to describe themselves is similar to why I refuse to use "identity" to describe what I am; this is a full-time experience with significant effects on daily life for me, and not a label or a vague feeling. Everyone else can call it what they wish..

Why isn't much of the community describing a relatable experience?
Many explained that their experiences were not what was being described by a lot of other people in the community, and assumed they were experiencing something outside of the "Standard Therian Experience™". If you're wondering why your experiences seem to be so different than the more mild or human-centered ones others describe it's likely because the majority of therians turn out to "not be" therians at all; their stuff disappears within a short time and they leave. I know this because this has always been an aspect of the community, but we treat everyone the same because you never know who might be the one experiencing something serious that sticks with them for the rest of their lives, so we do this to not leave those glorious creatures behind. For the rest; they learn something valuable about themselves, even if it wasn't what they expected, and perhaps they made some friends along the way. These communities exist to support and educate for both of these situations, and is why minors are included in many of our spaces; it's more effective to see who's interested in learning what therianthropy is than to try to determine who's "real", as was done in the past.
This community is still about deep intrinsic animality, and no amount of fluff or watering-down will ever change that..

However, these terms do not appear to have been designed to cover just this experience, and that coverage has been more of a by-product of what they were defined to focus on, which can be glimpsed here: https://holothere.carrd.co/#faq (the fact that it was placed in the FAQ and not the definition page should tell you something about the intent..). This term was specifically created to cater to those who perceived themselves as actually, physiologically/materially being a nonhuman animal, and they seem aware this is the basis of many p-shifting claims but are skirting around it. Delusion or not, this is what is being stated; their trying to avoid being ostracized for it. Which, not for nothing, I can understand..but let's continue..

You're probably wondering why the community got to the point where people felt the need to do this "wink wink, not p-shifting" bs..

How we got here:
Most in the community are likely aware that promoting the ideas of p-shifting has been widely banned both here and elsewhere, but some may not know the history of how this came about (A good thread where this was discussed in detail is available here: https://forums.therian-guide.com/Thread-A-Concerning-Trend-p-shifting-mentions?pid=286956#pid286956). The short of it is that there were cults and financial scams centered around people claiming to have these abilities..members of the communities became lost following delusions that were normalized and promoted by the people around them. You can read about some of my own experience with this during the mid-90s here: https://forums.therian-guide.com/Thread-Physical-therianthropy?pid=277731#pid277731; I was sent away as a teen over it and if friends from the Otherkin community had not showed me a more grounded path I would likely not be here to type this at all. The one thing that I want to impress upon those reading is that these are examples of how some types of delusions and cult-like behavior function "in the wild"; they are cautionary tales and should not be downplayed.


My arguments against these terms:

How is the "physical gender" argument a red-herring, and what actually is gender?

Here's a definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender (see 2b“sex sense” and “Are gender and sex the same? Usage Guide”)
(You may have noticed that the last link included: "gender expression refers to the physical and behavioral manifestations of one's gender identity." within the Usage Guide. This is referring to something happening within the physical world, such as behavior, mannerisms, actions, styles of dress and presentation...tangible things.)

Here's my own description of gender, as a trans person myself:
Gender is a sense of one's alignment(or non-alignment) with imposed sex-role stereotypes.. Gender is real in that it matters to those who are affected by those stereotypes, society's imposition of them, and the infringement of personal rights they represent.

In what way is gender related to biology?
The neurobiological view that I'm familiar with is where hormones and/or genetics are thought to influence the developing brain of a fetus in-utero. (This paper seems to support that hypothesis: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6677266/).

Does this mean gender itself is physical?
No, gender is a social construct (an idea) which many people internalize and compare to their internal sense-of-Self in order to “see where they fit”within the sex-coded norms of society...it's a statement about conformity vs non-comformity, to a specific set of social expectations. Why we feel this way may be influenced by biology, but the point that we hold these views does not mean that the view itself is a physical phenomena...it is a sense, a belief, an emotion, a thing that exists only within headspace or "our very being"..whatever you want to call it, but it is not taking place in the world as a physical manifestation (though we often wish it did).

Some descriptions of "physical therianthropy" have used the neurobiological view of gender as a red-herring argument to try to get readers to question their own reality about whether they know the difference between something “experienced deeply” and something which is physical. Because we view ourselves as “wholly this”, it often leads to an internal struggle between our sense-of-Self and the direct experience of our physical bodies, and explaining that cognitive dissonance (2 seemingly-contradictory ideas being held), is easy to misinterpret. We may be "wholly" these things, but they are still not physical.

What is the difference between the sense-of-Self and physical phenomena?
Physical explicitly refers to something which is taking place in the material world/physical reality. This does not include the sense-of-Self. The sense-of-Self is referred to as a "psychical phenomena", meaning it is taking place ephemerally within the psyche. The brain supports this, but it is effectively part of the "software" running on it.

Are things that are physical necessarily biological?
Possibly, it depends on the context. OP has stated that they do not view themselves to be biologically a nonhuman animal, so in this context that should also logically mean that they do not view themselves as being physically one either, since in this context that statement refers to the same physical-in-reality body. This is a logical fallacy; in order to factually state that one is not biological it would also necessitate that one is also not physical. We do not have "physical, but not biological" bodies/states of existence in reality; it is the human condition. I despise acknowledging this as well, but to deny it would be to present myself inauthentically, and as a wolf, I refuse.

Side-topics that I feel are intrinsically linked to this discussion and should be mentioned:

Are all delusions "inherently safe" ?
No, because there is no universal answer to this. Because each individual is a unique case no generalizable statement about safety can be legitimately claimed, and the ones often floated on reddit do not represent how delusions are viewed by clinicians. Safety depends on the ability to reality-check and how grounded the individual can remain; sometimes that's the case and sometimes it isn't. The fact that we have a history of this happening within the communities that every space admits they acknowledge should be pretty good evidence that the latter does happen. Use your better judgement; if your instinct is telling you that something is bad, listen to it. If someone tells you to suspend your sense of safety to benefit another, get the heck out of there.

Do I personally think people with delusions and/or 'Shifters', etc should be ostracized?
No, I actually don't. I have always held the view that I don't care what people believe as long as they aren't hurting anyone, or themselves. That view was well-regarded when I first said it in the Otherkin community in '99, and I still believe it. Misrepresenting meanings and reality, however, leads to tangible forms of harm as we have seen in the past. As long as everyone is on the "up and up" about what they believe, are maintaining some level of objectivity/grounding in reality, and are not trying to get others to join in their delusions, I don't care what anyone is or why we are like this, and I don't view the communities as separated; just therians who lost their way in the past. I feel this is inline with what I remember from the earlier community when we were all still called Weres. Remain skeptical, look out for yourselves/each other, and don't be an a-hole; this is all I ask.

I want to thank user 100espeon for the detailed explanation and helping spread correct information, as this includes a lot of the points I was going to make.

Therian guide was built on the purpose of creating an informative space and helping to educate others on what the identity means. You can see terms and discriptions even without being a member on the site afaik. Why would you simply assume a knew label that pretty much sums up the Therian experience because 'Therian' itself causes confusion or isn't being used correctly now? I would argue instead of slapping another label on it and meaning the same thing that's causing more harm than any good at all, it creats confusion and muddies the waters for an already niche and unknown community and term..

We don't need to be creating new terms and labels for our experiences. When somebody has the wrong Idea about therianthropy, we correct them and inform them of what it's actually like. We don't create new labels for it or affirm people trying to.. Therians all may experience therianthropy differently but afaik 'holothere' sums up most of the Therian community's experience.

I'm extremely against creating new terms and labels like this, and I would argue they shouldn't be used on this site. Personally I feel it goes against our main mission to educate people properly.. but that's my opinion. I'd like other members to challenge me if I'm wrong, I do feel very strongly about this

I just thought I'd also drop by on this topic to remind everyone that the therian community is in no great need of more new words.

As I have stated many, many times before, terms that only exist in the therian community are not helpful, because it's too easy for someone who is new to everything to misunderstand what the word was supposed to mean (and therefore, someone putting it in their profile to describe themselves, could mean anything).

It is much better, than to use these special words, to simply describe your experience. In other words, if you really really think you're a therian, don't call yourself a holothere, just say it: You identify as your theriotype. This is so much clearer.

As @Cygnus explained on discord, the holothere term was originally intended to validate the delusion that one has p-shifted (which the OP in this thread does not seem to appreciate). This serves to demonstrate how the meaning of the term changed when it was adopted by someone who did not fully appreciate its original meaning. This always happens and is why using these terms to describe oneself is a bad idea, because nobody involved in the exchange has any way to know which meaning you personally subscribe to when you used that word.


In addition, "private language" is one of the red flags on how to tell if something is a cult and so using these special terms that only have meaning to specific people make the therian community look like some kind of cult.

LP,
Dusty

I usually read all the replies before adding my own opinion, but there are far too many pages for me to read personally, so I apologize if my post is similar to others.

I believe no matter where you are on the internet, there are always going to be safety risks involved, especially on forums and spaces that are available to any/most age groups. I have seen the staff continuously make efforts to keep TG safe, and appropriate for all ages, as well as keep the site informational and helpful for all. I also want to add that i had my awakening when I was 15ish in age, and if not for being able to be a part of TG I wouldn't have had the experience I had awakening as a Therian. Adult members were there to guide me and new members were there to relate with me. Everyone was very helpful and informative.

I think as long as the staff continues to monitor the forum as they have been it will remain a safe place. The only thing that concerns me is an adult seeing that most of our userbase are minors, and posing as a therian in order to gain access to a forum of young and uninformed users..

(2025-02-08 17:25)Honeymala Wrote:  Ohhhhh okay! Thank you for explaining it in a nice way! I guess I just get a little confused, especially with the amount of therians who constantly shout “but we know we’re still human!!!!!11” but like...I don’t. So, am I some sort of different otherkin? And then this term came along and suddenly things made sense. I get the feeling that therianthropy/otherkinity is getting so garbled and watered down by social media that beings are forgetting what it originally was, and then spread misinformation. As someone that’s been in this community for just a few years, it’s really starting to confuse me :(

Worry not your not different. You dont have the desire to say it and that perfectly okay. The base experience is the same for everyone but we still all experience it a bit different from eachother because not one person is going to feel the same exact thing as another but no matter what they all feel that non human experience and non human identity. Its why we have TG to do our research and compare experiences to understand eachother. To debate civily and to learn.

But this is why we dont need terms and labels for every little aspect of the therian experience. Its becomes confusing and misunderstood. It doesn't help the community by having terms like that. We want people ouside of therianthropy to understand us clear as day. The moment terms get confusing.. people will start to think we physically are that animals dna and all when we arnt. And once the community has a bad reputation for all the misunderstandings.. therians would feel a need to go into hiding and try to avoid calling themselves therians so they dont get grouped with the tained view people have of the community. It happened to the furry community where people do horrible things to animals and so all furrys got grouped with that and now some furries dont use the furry label despite being one.

People forget what the therian experience is on places like tiktok and Tumblr because alot of stuff is being taught to others by kids who havent been that long in the community. They dont have the research like we do here at Tg so i dont blame them that they might not know what therianthropy is truly about.

C:

Dont get me wrong though I think its great that the Op told us about this. Because it lets people learn.

(2025-02-08 3:38)100espeon Wrote:  So Therianthropy it self its an experience right? The most common experience among therians is feeling non-human which is where the identify of their theriotype comes from but they still knowledge that they are infact physically human because down to the core of dna and our cellular structure we are. Whether we like it or not. Depending what you mean by become their theriotype...

Physically: (Of course its impossible but if they had choice by some magical genie-)
- Depending on the theriotype some may not wish to physically become their theriotype because life would be harder than living as human. If though it would feel so good to them to become it, it is too dangerous. You have to weigh in the fact that some species lives are cruel and dangerous. Fighting for survival, find shelter, food and water. Avoiding illnesses, and wounds because there is no doctor in the wild to treat you. It's not all fun and games as you may see survival animal games show.

Other means:
- For some it may be the fact that they arnt in a place to physically express or wear anything so they cant and wont do it for their own safety. Or maybe they just feel comfort as is and dont have a bad case of species dysphoria which is totally okay but that doesnt take away the fact they still feel non-human because that itself is what makes them therian.


For Spiritual Therians:
The do believe yes that they had a past life or a few of an animal of sort. If you believe in past lifes then you have to knowledge that this current life as a human will also someday will be a past life. So once they move onto the next life. Human will be part of their species list of past lives. Though their soul remembers the lessons, the way they felt in their previous lifes which makes what we have, A spiritual therian. So yes they knowledge they are human in this life but they are very much still identifying as an animal and feel non-human because of their soul being in an animals body before their human body

For Psychological Therians:
They don't believe they had a past life but rather something in their brain wired differently or even somewhere along the lines of development for the brain didnt come out the way it should. They feel non-human because of their brain because of how it developed and its wired. So these therians identify not by pastlive means but by a psychological reason with an animal of sort. May it be something they grew up around as a child leaving them to be heavily influenced and imprinted upon. Or perhaps an animal they saw during a traumatic event. Maybe during a traumatic event the animal was their comfort, or even they were treated so poorly by other humans that they thought maybe theyre not human anymore. There is many different reasons why a Psychological therian may identify with an animal or creature of sort. Its complicated to figure out the core making of these type of therians and how developed into one. Anyways, Alot of them will still knowledge that they are physically human but they still feel this non-human feeling about them. They still feel this animalistic part of them. They still see this animal side of them as part of their idenity.

Though there is some cases for certain folks with medical conditions like Clinical lycanthropy that they are trapped by their brain to see that they are physically the animal but they may still knowledge that they are human because they know what they see with their eyes is tricky of the brain to make them see something that isnt there. But none the less they identify sometimes with the animal and feel non-human. We actually had a therian here once who had this medical condition.

The identity of something non-human and feeling non-human...that is what the therian experience is and always will be.

Ohhhhh okay! Thank you for explaining it in a nice way! I guess I just get a little confused, especially with the amount of therians who constantly shout “but we know we’re still human!!!!!11” but like...I don’t. So, am I some sort of different otherkin? And then this term came along and suddenly things made sense. I get the feeling that therianthropy/otherkinity is getting so garbled and watered down by social media that beings are forgetting what it originally was, and then spread misinformation. As someone that’s been in this community for just a few years, it’s really starting to confuse me :(

(2025-02-08 3:38)100espeon Wrote:  So in my input with everything I said above: holothere seems like unnecessary term. As youre saying what basically what therianthropy is. you see yourself as an animal while saying that your physical body isnt physically that animal. That youre still knowledge you are human. Though what was explained for what holothere is.. sounds like a someone trying to say they physically are that animal without saying they are physically that animal and it just seems so unnecessary. There is a thing though i believe as too many labels and terms that we really dont need as it only creates clutter of confusion.

This is what I was trying to say, not sure if it came over like this. I'm with the others that see it as an unneccessary term. But I probably said enough about it already.

This really just sounds like an unnecessary word for therianthropy. That's what therianthropy is. Have people really become so misinformed that they lost the definition for therianthropy and just started calling it something else?

(2025-02-08 2:28)Honeymala Wrote:  Oooooh! I quite like this term! I suppose it could be a synonym to the term “nonhuman”, which is how I define myself. There are cases where this sort of thing isn’t delusional. As far as I know, I don’t have hallucinations or anything similar, I just know for certain that I don’t feel human. My thoughts, behaviors, and emotions are very odd for a human, some of them being outright feral, so I don’t think I ever was one. I know there’s gotta be other reasons for non-delusional nonhumanity! :bheart:

I am a bit puzzled by something, though...I’ve heard some therians say this is just what therianthropy is, but from what I’ve seen, I’m not so sure. I’ve noticed how many therians were simply animals in past lives but identify fully as humans in this life, or know that they’re human and just “shift” to become more like their theriotype sometimes, or some that don’t even wish to become their type because being a human is better. That doesn’t quite feel like being holothere to me, am I missing something?

(Not trying to invalidate beings’ experiences, btw, I just want to fully understand this.)

So Therianthropy it self its an experience right? The most common experience among therians is feeling non-human which is where the identify of their theriotype comes from but they still knowledge that they are infact physically human because down to the core of dna and our cellular structure we are. Whether we like it or not. Depending what you mean by become their theriotype...

Physically: (Of course its impossible but if they had choice by some magical genie-)
- Depending on the theriotype some may not wish to physically become their theriotype because life would be harder than living as human. If though it would feel so good to them to become it, it is too dangerous. You have to weigh in the fact that some species lives are cruel and dangerous. Fighting for survival, find shelter, food and water. Avoiding illnesses, and wounds because there is no doctor in the wild to treat you. It's not all fun and games as you may see survival animal games show.

Other means:
- For some it may be the fact that they arnt in a place to physically express or wear anything so they cant and wont do it for their own safety. Or maybe they just feel comfort as is and dont have a bad case of species dysphoria which is totally okay but that doesnt take away the fact they still feel non-human because that itself is what makes them therian.


For Spiritual Therians:
The do believe yes that they had a past life or a few of an animal of sort. If you believe in past lifes then you have to knowledge that this current life as a human will also someday will be a past life. So once they move onto the next life. Human will be part of their species list of past lives. Though their soul remembers the lessons, the way they felt in their previous lifes which makes what we have, A spiritual therian. So yes they knowledge they are human in this life but they are very much still identifying as an animal and feel non-human because of their soul being in an animals body before their human body

For Psychological Therians:
They don't believe they had a past life but rather something in their brain wired differently or even somewhere along the lines of development for the brain didnt come out the way it should. They feel non-human because of their brain because of how it developed and its wired. So these therians identify not by pastlive means but by a psychological reason with an animal of sort. May it be something they grew up around as a child leaving them to be heavily influenced and imprinted upon. Or perhaps an animal they saw during a traumatic event. Maybe during a traumatic event the animal was their comfort, or even they were treated so poorly by other humans that they thought maybe theyre not human anymore. There is many different reasons why a Psychological therian may identify with an animal or creature of sort. Its complicated to figure out the core making of these type of therians and how developed into one. Anyways, Alot of them will still knowledge that they are physically human but they still feel this non-human feeling about them. They still feel this animalistic part of them. They still see this animal side of them as part of their idenity.

Though there is some cases for certain folks with medical conditions like Clinical lycanthropy that they are trapped by their brain to see that they are physically the animal but they may still knowledge that they are human because they know what they see with their eyes is tricky of the brain to make them see something that isnt there. But none the less they identify sometimes with the animal and feel non-human. We actually had a therian here once who had this medical condition.

The identity of something non-human and feeling non-human...that is what the therian experience is and always will be.

(2025-02-06 6:40)owlsgardfan96 Wrote:  A holothere is someone who identifies physically as an animal, they do not believe they are biologically an animal (unless they have clinical zoanthropy) but that’s the gist of it. Personally I do not think I am biologically an animal as I do not have any delusional disorder or anything that would cause me to believe this, but I do identify physically as my theriotype (Biological and physical are not technically the same thing).

One explanation I’ve heard for it is, for example, “I identify as a dog, and my body is mine, so therefore this body is a dog’s body, even though I may not look like a dog, I am still entirely dog.” This is my personal explanation as well.

Holothere means “entirely animal” meaning one does not identify as human in any way. There’s a good few websites with more information on this. It can be equated to transgender, while obviously not the same thing, it’s compared as so: “A transgender individual is 100% their internally perceived gender(s). They may be biologically their AGAB, but they are still 100% the gender(s) they identify as.”

So in my input with everything I said above: holothere seems like unnecessary term. As youre saying what basically what therianthropy is. you see yourself as an animal while saying that your physical body isnt physically that animal. That youre still knowledge you are human. Though what was explained for what holothere is.. sounds like a someone trying to say they physically are that animal without saying they are physically that animal and it just seems so unnecessary. There is a thing though i believe as too many labels and terms that we really dont need as it only creates clutter of confusion. One reason being: as a community where its very easily judged by folks who dont understand therianthropy. terms like physical therian and holotherian terms will confuse people. The less confusing terms the better. The way I see it: no need for special terms when you can just simple say "I experience therianthropy like this" If we made a term for every single type of experience, it would become super hard to keep track of and it would get very messy. As everyone experiences it a bit different.

But dont get me wrong, anyone can have their own views and opinions. I'm not trying to come off as attacking anyone persay but just giving my own input about this since thats what we are here for in this community to debate, compare experiences and understand therianthropy and everything that it is. I'm just trying to understand and make sense of things.

Oooooh! I quite like this term! I suppose it could be a synonym to the term “nonhuman”, which is how I define myself. There are cases where this sort of thing isn’t delusional. As far as I know, I don’t have hallucinations or anything similar, I just know for certain that I don’t feel human. My thoughts, behaviors, and emotions are very odd for a human, some of them being outright feral, so I don’t think I ever was one. I know there’s gotta be other reasons for non-delusional nonhumanity! :bheart:

I am a bit puzzled by something, though...I’ve heard some therians say this is just what therianthropy is, but from what I’ve seen, I’m not so sure. I’ve noticed how many therians were simply animals in past lives but identify fully as humans in this life, or know that they’re human and just “shift” to become more like their theriotype sometimes, or some that don’t even wish to become their type because being a human is better. That doesn’t quite feel like being holothere to me, am I missing something?

(Not trying to invalidate beings’ experiences, btw, I just want to fully understand this.)