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Trying to define Therianthropy can be bad
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Post: #11
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?
A lot of terms that have been created in the therian community came about as a quick and easy way to say something and move on. Intended to be used by people already in the know, if you will, so save time and get beyond the basics.

A big problem with jargon as a whole is that the details and meaning behind a term that could be expanded upon into pages and pages of thought... is that that kind of stuff slides off most people's brains far too easily. So people jump on the half sentence oversimplification instead. That is what people become exposed too and the expanded deeper meaning, well, gets forgotten by the general mass of people.

It doesn't help that what is being talked about in the community is an experience and a state of being. Something that people have to work even harder to put into words without falling into writing a dissertation.

So community jargon is both important to a community, and can be a great weakness. A community needs at least some terms for them to function properly so that members don't get always bogged down in word salads, but there can always be issues with too easily missing or getting the deeper meanings.

So to go directly to the question, I think trying to delve into the heart of therianthropy and animality is something I and the rest of our multiple system relishes. I think it is highly important to be able to dig deep into our collective community experiences and find the heart of why this community exists. However, I also doubt that we can ever truly define therianthropy in some short-hand way that can ever really grasp what it is. I'm all for trying though.

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2018-07-26 4:19
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Post: #12
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?

(2018-07-24 18:40)BearX Wrote:  I absolutely feel this way, Dusty. I've long felt that as a community, we've outgrown a lot of the definitions as our knowledge has grown.

Much of the definitions we use currently were thrown together in the early days by people who were trying to give words to their experience. This resulted in an explosion of terms.

Take "bilocation shifts" for instance... I've never had a lucid conversation with anyone who experiences them. Nor, any proof that they happen. In my mind, they're as much an impossibility as physical shifting. Appearing in another location as your animal form? I'm skeptical. The only reason this made it into the AHWW FAQ back in the day is one guy said he experienced them. There's plenty of other examples too where one person creates a term for whatever reason and it ultimately ends up being used, but doesn't really apply except to a thin slice of the community.

I've seen folks run off from some forums because their beliefs didn't fit into the rigid framework allowed by those running the fora. This is more common in some of the social media forums, but it is very frustrating, because often what is described is very much in line with what I know to be therianthropy.

I do think that therianthropy is a bigger tent than we likely give it. We literally don't know enough and are too scattered right now to collate it.

I suppose it's a lot like how Potter Stewart described obscenity, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description... But I know it when I see it" Even if someone describes something that doesn't fit the accepted, standard definition, it's usually quite obvious if their animality "rings true".


I have had only 1 bi-location experience. Note me in your records Smile

2018-07-26 13:14
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Post: #13
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?

(2018-07-26 13:14)BRRVV127 Wrote:  I have had only 1 bi-location experience. Note me in your records Smile


You have my attention! I'm quite curious, because I have only heard of the one -- did anyone witness the materialization? Which kintype manifested? How did it differ from an astral shift?


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2018-07-26 14:32
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Post: #14
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?

(2018-07-26 14:32)BearX Wrote:  

(2018-07-26 13:14)BRRVV127 Wrote:  I have had only 1 bi-location experience. Note me in your records Smile


You have my attention! I'm quite curious, because I have only heard of the one -- did anyone witness the materialization? Which kintype manifested? How did it differ from an astral shift?

We've also experienced bilocation shifting (or as we sometimes call it "projection shifting." We actually started out calling it projection but switched to calling in bilocation shifting when we discovered the community. However, anymore because some people also use the term to be a phyical materialization of another body rather than an out-of-body experience while conscious but not of going into the astral plane or spirit world, we've started calling it "projection shifting."

Basically our experience with what call/once called "bilocation shifting" is where we have an out-of-body experience where our spirit/consciousness projects outside our body and wanders this physical world like a spirit or ghost.

We differentiate this from what is generally called "astral shifting" (though we call it "journey shifting" because we do not believe in the "astral plane" and "astral body" so we use a different term instead) because that kind of out-of-body experiences we deal with involves our spirit/consciousness leaving our body, going into the spirit worlds and traveling there. Plus besides location differences, intent of what is done while out of body differs. Projection ("bilocation shifting" is usually used more casually but sometimes used for spiritual purposes, whereas journeying ("astral/journey shifting") is almost always done with a spiritual intent in mind. For another difference there is that while the former leaves our body still going about is normal more or less, in the latter our body usually end up in a trance-like state. There are a few other differences but those are some of the bigger ones.

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2018-07-26 19:28
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Post: #15
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?

(2018-07-26 14:32)BearX Wrote:  

(2018-07-26 13:14)BRRVV127 Wrote:  I have had only 1 bi-location experience. Note me in your records Smile


You have my attention! I'm quite curious, because I have only heard of the one -- did anyone witness the materialization? Which kintype manifested? How did it differ from an astral shift?



Glad to be of info assistance. My Djinn kintype through meditation, was embodied energetically astral. I really had to focus on where I wanted to end up, it wasn't one of those things that I have to journey to a location, which honestly would have taken forever since the destination was a state away. I was doing the meditation during a phone call with a friend. I didnt think it would work and I was skeptic but apparently she show something manifest, and she has to take a picture of it for me by hanging up. Sending and calling me back. Previously I was getting horned phantom shifts. The manifestation of my energy confirmed for me that that was a form of my kintype. I dont know how to post pictures here, I would like to share and I would have to make a seperate thread and upload the picture. It's pretty strange but cool. I consider Bi-location possible and should be included in our current definitions. Some kintypes may be able to do it easier than others. Respectively controversial subject. I grew up a regular astral projector and lucid dreamer. I believe such a skill or connection starts there. As far as the difference, my astral form isnt typically visible being in another state., while bi-locating is manifesting back materialistically as a dark shadow form. It takes a lot of energy and can be exhausting. I think we can understand entities in supernatural better by experiencing what they do while we are embodied and alive. Smile

(This post was last modified: 2018-07-26 19:45 by BRRVV127.)
2018-07-26 19:41
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Post: #16
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?
We shouldn't have to have terms to describe what we feel, or experience.

However in my opinion, only mental and phantom shifts are a thing. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone. I just think that most people can boil their experiences down to something more explainable.

I'm glad all I have are mental and phantom shifts! If the others were a thing, I'd go crazy. Having mental shifts is hard enough!

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(This post was last modified: 2018-07-27 1:07 by Azi_MexyWolf.)
2018-07-27 1:05
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Post: #17
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?
Hello,

After reviewing all of your posts I still find myself in agreement with @BearX and WVZ:

(2018-07-25 4:29)WolfVanZandt Wrote:  What we don't need is endless generation of trivial terminology.

Also a big problem is the presentation of opinions as though we know what we're talking about when we clearly don't, giving advice about things we don't understand.


I feel that many of our words are probably out of date and out of sync with our experiences.

Like elinox puts it:

(2018-07-25 14:23)elinox Wrote:  the core definitions of those words should stay relatively the same, or else the original words hold no meaning and we loose context and the history of the word itself.


One such very critical example are for instance mental shifts. As a suntherian my experience of those is different than most therians, yet when we discussed that we couldn't quite pin it down. Many of the older therians no longer experience clear m-shifts -- instead their minds are more integrated with their theriotypes, much closer to the experience of a suntherian. But the way mental-shifting is defined right now, it can only be an unchanging experience of drastic changes in mental state and the way suntherianthropy is defined, it offers no way to be a partial suntherian, even explicitly stating that suntherians do not experience m-shifts.

All of this leads me to believe that perhaps it is a time for a more progressive approach. Perhaps we should stop focusing on the definitions and instead focus on the experiences. Perhaps once our experiences are better documented (see how many threads you can find that describe an actual therian experience), maybe we could start summarizing that into terms, if most of it appears to be the same across the board.

Right now I feel the words we have do more harm than good.

LP,
Dusty


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2018-07-31 23:37
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Post: #18
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?
You know what? The only reason why people go all "I dont like labels" is because so many people put a negative connotation on them. The terms are there, but if you dont really align with them, just focus on being you, you dont have to define yourself as otherkin even though you have a non-human identity, but others will. I guess it's like "yes I guess I am" type of attitude. A part of my reason to leave the community was because I'm a bit traditionalist myself, and a bunch of ignorant people started reinventing the wheel with terms and not allowing me to teach about what we really have. And inventing things like "Factkin" really harms things. The obstical now many of those people have to learn is about Copinglink vs Defense mechanism. Because I really feel like many are really Otherkin, they are just misunderstanding it. Either way, it's okay to be otherkin and fly solo if you prefer. I am the type of person that finds comfort in rules, so terms and their definitions let me know that I am in the right, or even the wrong place, just how my mind works.

Positively Pro-terms. (I've been called elitist, and gatekeeper only by people who cant handle being told "no" when explained why constructively)

(2018-07-31 23:37)DustWolf Wrote:  Hello,


I feel that many of our words are probably out of date and out of sync with our experiences.

Like elinox puts it:

(2018-07-25 14:23)elinox Wrote:  the core definitions of those words should stay relatively the same, or else the original words hold no meaning and we loose context and the history of the word itself.


One such very critical example are for instance mental shifts. As a suntherian my experience of those is different than most therians, yet when we discussed that we couldn't quite pin it down. Many of the older therians no longer experience clear m-shifts -- instead their minds are more integrated with their theriotypes, much closer to the experience of a suntherian. But the way mental-shifting is defined right now, it can only be an unchanging experience of drastic changes in mental state and the way suntherianthropy is defined, it offers no way to be a partial suntherian, even explicitly stating that suntherians do not experience m-shifts.

All of this leads me to believe that perhaps it is a time for a more progressive approach. Perhaps we should stop focusing on the definitions and instead focus on the experiences. Perhaps once our experiences are better documented (see how many threads you can find that describe an actual therian experience), maybe we could start summarizing that into terms, if most of it appears to be the same across the board.

Right now I feel the words we have do more harm than good.

LP,
Dusty



Once upon a time. The groups I was in on Facebook used to actually talk about their experiences, and lessons about terms would just happen along the way. In time, every experience had been said, there was nothing to talk about, all had already been said, and only the introductions would remain and some admins being very interrogating because of a large amount of trolls infiltrating protected space. I think that It is okay to invent new terms if it is necessary, afterall, adjectives are just a necessary part of language, but perhaps Therianthropy has reach a point of being static. The more experiences are talked about, the more I welcome change, maybe that's what is needed for official Therian sources.

What is your opinion if Otherkin/Therianthropy just settled for " a non-human identity that is not chosen or Roleplay" and that was it? Just curious

(This post was last modified: 2018-09-05 3:45 by BRRVV127.)
2018-09-05 2:21
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Post: #19
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?

(2018-09-05 2:21)BRRVV127 Wrote:  What is your opinion if Otherkin/Therianthropy just settled for " a non-human identity that is not chosen or Roleplay" and that was it? Just curious


I'm weary of simple definitions because they lead to people assuming Therianthropy is just what the definition says (and therefore, by your definition, has nothing to do with animals for instance) and start jumbling all types of identity together into one large basket that contains everybody, from factkin to otherkin.

Therianthropy is not just a non-human identity thing, in fact it probably has little to do with identity and social politics, and more with some biological or psychological convergence of traits with animals. Therians experience therianthropy whether or not they choose to identify. It is very counterproductive in helping people deal with therianthropy, to just group this together with everything related to non-human identity, because those experiences are simply not the same.

LP,
Dusty


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(This post was last modified: 2018-09-05 13:54 by DustWolf.)
2018-09-05 13:52
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Post: #20
RE: Is trying to define Therianthropy bad?
Unfortunately, people "learn" these definitions whether they're applicable or not, and then they go on to confidently teach others and /we don't know/. Online, therians are very bad about parroting things they've heard without having actually thought those things out, and then they try to shove themselves into the molds provided.

A significant amount of what you read online is role playing and the very many people who have never been around other weres in real life have no way to distinguish between the reality and the garbage. That's why I don't like the focus on experiences, experiences, experiences. Many of the experiences are bogus or fantasies. Yet, people adopt them. People want to conform and conform they will.

If you look hard enough, you will find the answers, whether they exist or not. If you're not being careful in your seeking, then what you find will be fantasy. That won't stop people from adopting those answers. So, instead of putting trash in the trash bin, we greedily consume it.

Dust is right. There are many therians who have no idea that they're therians. They might feel like a wolf or bear or moose but they don't realize what it is that they're feeling so they don't "identify" as anything but "not like others."

A few have suggested that we do share experiences and, over time, collect enough information that we can start to see what's common experience and what's individual interpretation that may not have anything to do with therianthropy. That makes some sense - if we ever get to the point of collating all the individual cases, but at some point we have to stop "I did this and I did that, and I felt this and I dreamed that," and start talking about "we experience this as a people. This is what we are."
2018-09-05 15:18
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