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Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
Carprincess
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Post: #1
Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
Hello, everyone! As a forewarning, I am not entirely 100% sure whether or not this question should remain in this thread or go to the Therian Help & Advice section. However, since I feel like this is a 'newbie' question for therians, I figured it'd be best placed here. I apologize in advance if this question offends anyone. If you would rather answer me in a PM, that is more than welcome!

Background: While I have always known about people who associated themselves with animals (mostly wolves, only one sea otter) throughout high school and college, I never knew the 'term' for it. However, all these people whom I have met in person always associated with one single animal. They were one animal stuck in one human body. Great, I can fully understand that.

A few years ago, I was told it was being a 'therian'. When I looked it up on sites like Tumblr (which I know isn't a 100% viable source) and even on here, I see individuals who associate themselves as more than one animal-type. I could understand if someone was, for example, a wolf-kin but a hawk-kith (so they are a wolf in a human body, but they feel close to hawks), but it is hard for me to fully grasp the concept of identifying oneself as more than one animal. This is especially true when during my introduction, I was told that:

Quote:-Kin: You can seriously say "I am a cat"
-Kith: You feel deeply, personally connected to cats, beyond just liking them. You might be able to say something along the lines of "Cats are my family".

-----

This is not a thread meant to attack anyone. I just want to understand therians better. I have never been exposed to so many therians in one place, especially ones of so many different varieties.

The best way I could understand it (and I'll use myself as an example) is like this:

I was born in America, technically I am American.
However, my parents were born in Cuba and Uruguay, so I claim the nationalities of both countries.

I know using my example of heritage may not be the best, but it shows that I definitely need a lot to learn and I'm hoping someone out there can clarify this for me.

Do therians with multiple animals have a similar logic? Are they primarily one animal, but believe they have had previous lives as another animal, thus they claim that secondary (and even third) animal as their kin? Or do they believe they are a hybrid like a dog/hawk? Or maybe it depends on their mood and a different animal dominates their body, but if that's the case, wouldn't they be kith instead?

Once again, if this thread needs to be moved. Please move it.

Also if you feel more comfortable answering this via PM, do so.
2017-09-07 1:51
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Damien
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Post: #2
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
As polytherian myself (not my demon side), I will try and answer most of these questions to the fullest.

First off, just a disclaimer, there was this one youtuber therian who said that you could be only one animal and at the time I got all pissed with that opinionated "fact". (But now that I'm dead inside, it truly feels like nothing verbal could hurt me.) As for you, since you actually want to know why, it gives me a more genuine reason to explain it "truthfully".

Q: Do therians with multiple animals have a similar logic?

A: This is an interesting question to start out with. The example you gave was slightly confusing but I know what you mean now. For me it doesn't really go with the same logic. In my experience, if you're polytherian, you find out one type and then maybe you had a shift or felt like a piece was missing from you and you decide to narrow it down to a certain type. That's the best way I could descibe it.

Q: Are they primarily one animal, but believe they have had previous lives as another animal, thus they claim that secondary (and even third) animal as their kin?

A: Since I'm not labeled as a spiritual therian, or person for that matter, I would not say that I believe that I had previous lives as another animal. Although I do not label myself as spiritual, I do know some information on past lives. I know that you don't always remember your past life/lives. Just thought I would point that out.

Q: Or do they believe they are a hybrid like a dog/hawk?

A: If this is the case, they would be otherkin and not therian. Since therians are real animals that HAVE existed, a hybrid like what you described, would be otherkin. If they ID as a wolfdog then they would be a therian and that would count as one type on its own.

Q: Or maybe it depends on their mood and a different animal dominates their body, but if that's the case, wouldn't they be kith instead?

A: This has to be my favorite question out of all of them. I think what you're describing is not even therian. The closest thing I could think of to this would be a daemon. Even though they are souls outside of the body, this is all I know about what you're trying to say. If you say it depends on their mood, then supposedly they would be kith. But like the definition of kith states that you feel a connection with a creature, it wouldn't be a theriotype. Unless you're implying that a person could be kith and kin at the same time, that would not be a polytherian. You can be kith and kin at the same time.


I hope I answered most of them truthfully and understandable. ^_^

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(This post was last modified: 2017-09-07 4:31 by Damien.)
2017-09-07 3:55
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Neema
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Post: #3
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
Polytherianthropy is definitely confusing, and as a polytherian, I can tell you that it still confuses me.

Sure someone could tell you that they had their theriotypes as past lives as their reasoning, but not all of us see it that way.

The way I figure it, all I need to know is that I see myself equally as a hyena as I do a baboon. When I look at both these animals, I have a feeling deep in my bones and my heart that I should have been born as one of these animals. My self-image reflects that of these animals, as do my therian-attributed mannerisms and urges.

Does this mean I have all the answers to how it works? Absolutely not. But, then again, neither do single-theriotype therians. We are all equally clueless as to how therianthropy came to be. We can guess and theorize all we like, but at the end of the day, no one knows for certain.

I honestly stopped worrying about the "why"s of my multiple theriotypes long ago, as it just caused me distress. All I need to know is that I am both of these animals equally, some way or another. And that's all that matters to me.

Really all we can tell you is how we feel, and you can take us at our word. We cannot prove or disprove this phenomenon to anyone, seeing as it is just an internal feeling and identity.

“He who understands baboon would do more towards metaphysics than Locke.” -Charles Darwin
"Who hasn’t asked himself, am I a monster or is this what it means to be human?" -Clarice Lispector, The Hour of the Star
(This post was last modified: 2017-09-08 5:10 by Neema.)
2017-09-07 5:47
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StarDolphin
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Post: #4
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
@Neema put it nicely. For me its about pastlives. I loved the lifestyle and feeling of being in the form of cetaceans (dolphins whales and porpises) favoring usually the smaller or more agile bodies to incarnate into usually, meaning the toothed whales,(includes dolphins , orcas , belugas) but also having favored memories from being the larger whales forms such as humpback and the largest (but actually really fast swimming) blue whale! (Gosh, that was such an amazing life!)


And yes i feel like i remember many of these experiences, including getting slaughtered as a whitesided dolphin in japan, which i still suffer ptsd from.

Any way, i see it as my souls journey though cetacean forms, in which i loved overall the diversity of all the different forms i had, so i identify as all of cetacea. Smile identifying as a clad group is called cladotherianthropy. Smile im a cetacean cladotherian. Smile

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(This post was last modified: 2017-09-08 2:55 by StarDolphin.)
2017-09-08 2:53
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Carprincess
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Post: #5
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
Thank you @Damien, @Neema, & @StarDolphin for taking the time to give me your unique insights on polytherians (which is better than multiple kin identities). I honestly was fearful that I would receive a lot of backlash for my inquiry.

Damien Wrote:Q: Or do they believe they are a hybrid like a dog/hawk?

A: If this is the case, they would be otherkin and not therian. Since therians are real animals that HAVE existed, a hybrid like what you described, would be otherkin. If they ID as a wolfdog then they would be a therian and that would count as one type on its own.

Q: Or maybe it depends on their mood and a different animal dominates their body, but if that's the case, wouldn't they be kith instead?

A: This has to be my favorite question out of all of them. I think what you're describing is not even therian. The closest thing I could think of to this would be a daemon. Even though they are souls outside of the body, this is all I know about what you're trying to say. If you say it depends on their mood, then supposedly they would be kith. But like the definition of kith states that you feel a connection with a creature, it wouldn't be a theriotype. Unless you're implying that a person could be kith and kin at the same time, that would not be a polytherian. You can be kith and kin at the same time.
I am quoting these two final ones because these were the answers that resonated the most with me. See, I assumed that unrealistic hybrids like hawk/dog would be otherkin (as opposed to wolfdog), but while lurking I know a lot of people feel that werewolves are not otherkin because they are still technically wolves.... So I wasn't sure where real creatures that were simply mixed were on the therian vs otherkin spectrum. However I'm not here to question otherkin vs therian, I'm more concerned with polytherians.

The last point gives me a lot more questions than it has answers honestly. ^^o It could be my brain that is currently mush due to an 11-hour long work meeting, but like... Now I need to lurk around these threads to see if I could learn more about kiths being kins at the same time.

But like I appreciate the time and honesty you put into your responses. I know you probably didn't want to answer it because I'm sure a lot of non-therians ask about this. But like, I do like the fact that you helped me kinda understand polytherians and gave me a bunch of more new terms to learn and look into at a later date.

Neema Wrote:The way I figure it, all I need to know is that I see myself equally as a hyena as I do a baboon. When I look at both these animals, I have a feeling deep in my bones and my heart that I should have been born as one of these animals. My self-image reflects that of these animals, as do my therian-attributed mannerisms and urges.

Does this mean I have all the answers to how it works? Absolutely not. But, then again, neither do single-theriotype therians. We are all equally clueless as to how therianthropy came to be. We can guess and theorize all we like, but at the end of the day, no one knows for certain.

I honestly stopped worrying about the "why"s of my multiple theriotypes long ago, as it just caused me distress. All I need to know is that I am both of these animals equally, some way or another. And that's all that matters to me.

At the end of the day, all we can really tell you is how we feel, and you can take us at our word. We cannot prove or disprove this phenomenon to anyone, seeing as it is just an internal feeling and identity.
Thank you for giving me a personal perspective on how being a polytherian affects you. While I understand it was probably rough explaining something you feel versus something you could prove, it really did help a bit. I'm not going to lie, part of me wants to poke and prod to understand more how you can see yourself as both a hyena and a baboon cause those are two very distinct animals, but I'll take what I can get.

I'm honestly fascinated.

Regardless, thank you so much for opening up to me and doing your best to explain all of this to me. It's good that while you don't fully comprehend why you feel the way you do sometimes, you are learned to accept it. Heck, there are days I can't decifer my emotions completely, so like I can't blame you. Identity is something that everyone (human or not) takes forever to figure out.

StarDolphin Wrote:@Neema put it nicely. For me its about pastlives. I loved the lifestyle and feeling of being in the form of cetaceans (dolphins whales and porpises) favoring usually the smaller or more agile bodies to incarnate into usually, meaning the toothed whales,(includes dolphins , orcas , belugas) but also having favored memories from being the larger whales forms such as humpback and the largest (but actually really fast swimming) blue whale! (Gosh, that was such an amazing life!)


And yes i feel like i remember many of these experiences, including getting slaughtered as a whitesided dolphin in japan, which i still suffer ptsd from.

Any way, i see it as my souls journey though cetacean forms, in which i loved overall the diversity of all the different forms i had, so i identify as all of cetacea. :) identifying as a clad group is called cladotherianthropy. :) im a cetacean cladotherian. :)
Oh! A past-lives polytherian! As you know I did lurk your posts so reading this doesn't surprise me. However I didn't realize that your connection with orcas and whales extended to kin, I just figured you were a dolphin-kin with various aquatic kiths. No wonder. Thanks for continuing to be awesome and teaching me things!

I'm sorry you suffer PTSD from that past-experience. The only way I can sympathize is having mild PTSD from being hit by a car, which is sometimes troublesome since I work in a very busy city where crossing the street is like a major neccessity. ^^o

But honestly all of this helps, I like having different points of view and if individuals want to continue sharing their polytherian stories/theories then that would be awesome.
2017-09-08 3:23
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WolfVanZandt
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Post: #6
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
In my view, a therian is a therian because of what's going on inside them to make them a therian. Although we don't know what that is, there is something that makes a therian a therian. From that point of view, if the mechanism is there, they are a therian. What difference does it make what their theriotype is? Isn't the mythic thing sorta arbitrary?

I don't like the categorization of a therian as otherkin for a completely different reason. I've known both otherkin and Weres (in real life) and the two seem to be qualitatively different to me. The act different, they talk differently, in many cases they even smell differently. My brain can't grasp therians as otherkin. And if reserachers are looking at a mix of therians and otherkin to try to figure out what's going on with us, their results will be contaminated.

But a lot of people that are called "otherkin" seem to be therians to me. I've known several draconics and their life experiences look therian. I can't tell the difference. If the only difference is that they say that they're a mythic creature, that's just words - it's an arbitrary distinction. There has been a big debate about whether Weres can have non-animal theriotypes. I've known a machine therian, a tree therian, and an earwig therian and they all convinced me that they were legitimate therians.

So I'd like to know what difference it makes whether a person shifts into a dragon mindset or a machine mindset or a wolf mindset. Can you come up with any reason to say that the underlying mechanisms are not essentially the same?
2017-09-08 4:40
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Lobo
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Post: #7
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
(2017-09-08 4:40)WolfVanZandt Wrote:  In my view, a therian is a therian because of what's going on inside them to make them a therian. Although we don't know what that is, there is something that makes a therian a therian. From that point of view, if the mechanism is there, they are a therian. What difference does it make what their theriotype is? Isn't the mythic thing sorta arbitrary?

I don't like the categorization of a therian as otherkin for a completely different reason. I've known both otherkin and Weres (in real life) and the two seem to be qualitatively different to me. The act different, they talk differently, in many cases they even smell differently. My brain can't grasp therians as otherkin. And if reserachers are looking at a mix of therians and otherkin to try to figure out what's going on with us, their results will be contaminated.

But a lot of people that are called "otherkin" seem to be therians to me. I've known several draconics and their life experiences look therian. I can't tell the difference. If the only difference is that they say that they're a mythic creature, that's just words - it's an arbitrary distinction. There has been a big debate about whether Weres can have non-animal theriotypes. I've known a machine therian, a tree therian, and an earwig therian and they all convinced me that they were legitimate therians.

So I'd like to know what difference it makes whether a person shifts into a dragon mindset or a machine mindset or a wolf mindset. Can you come up with any reason to say that the underlying mechanisms are not essentially the same?

Hi there, I just wanted to chime in my two senses. I bolded two parts that resonated within your post that both I agree and disagree with. I agree with you it shouldn't matter to the classification of what makes someone a therian. If they believe it then they are it, it's not exactly something one can prove as you mentioned, and it's very hard to explain to those when you aren't well read into the terms of what a therian is.

Example, from my earliest childhood memories I can remember always believing I was a wolf. My mindset, mannerisms, speech, and social cues all proved this and still do. However about 3 years ago I know I had someone I once respected ridicule me about "Why was I such a weirdo?" and challenging me to not use wolf vocabulary when I spoke, or even mention wolves, change my mannerisms and "be normal". Nevertheless, I tried this and not even a full week I felt a disconnect. Something was wrong. I wasn't me. I had an identity crisis. I started meditating (though I didn't know that's what I was doing at the time). I'd sit in silence trying to feel my heart beat as I let my mind wander to figure out what was wrong with me. Long story short I accepted myself for what I am...a Wolf..and I began to feel more like myself.

I mentioned my story/experience to bring relevance to the other issue I had. I admit and know fully I am a wolf. I'm still trying to work out the kinks and figure out if I'm psychological or not. I always believed that I was a spiritual therian. However, I honestly can't pinpoint how I felt when I had my first mental shift. I know I was 10 at the time, but that was a little over a decade ago. So couldnt tell ya if I felt off being in a human body or not, after all it was around that time I went through puberty living with a single mom so not really like I had something to compare too. However, I know me myself (and this could be because I was ridiculed and always seemed like I had to prove myself) I find it hard to accept the idea of weres and other/mythkins without a slight bit of doubt.

I'm trying to be open to it all seeing as how you mentioned. It's not something you can prove. It's a mental/spiritual/psychological state of being. However, I do feel a slight bit of doubt when I see someone state they relate to a creature we haven't yet been able to prove exists. (again I'm not trying to target anyone..just stating that I am trying to comprehend that it is possible, and get over some self-doubt on that part.)

In such cases, I find it helpful to know whether they are spiritual, psychological and their story to better comprehend how it is they came to the conclusion of being the kin/therian they announce themselves as.

@Carprincess
Sorry Sweetie if I detoured the thread topic a bit with my post.
(This post was last modified: 2017-09-08 5:19 by Lobo.)
2017-09-08 5:14
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WolfVanZandt
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Post: #8
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
I don't think it /can't/ be proved. I think it's something we don't know how to prove yet - we're working on it.

And if what makes a person a therian is their belief that they're a therian, that sorta boils therianthropy down to, well, nothing much. I could believe that I'm a coke bottle but that doesn't make me a coke bottle. But I've known therians that didn't know that they were therians - their belief had absolutely nothing to do with their being a therian or not. Therianthropy, whatever it is, is real - not imaginary. There is something that makes a therian a therian that goes way beyond belief.

It's not that we don't know anything. There are some things that we do know (or should).

For instance, yes, there are therians that can sense when someone else is a therian so it isn't even true that "No one can tell if someone is a therian or not - only they can tell that." That's a commonly stated idea and it's convenient for some - it's just not true.

Some theories do not make room for certain theriotypes, but we don't know which theories to accept just yet and there are perfectly feasible theories (such as a developmental theory) which has room for just about any theriotype that could be thought of, period. Frankly, I think that our theriotype is part of our personality and it develops with our personality. One reason I believe that is exactly the fact that theriotypes like trees and machines do, as best as I can tell, exist. Now, I could be wrong and the folks that think we're therians because some extent animal's soul ended up in a human body, but the bottom line is /we don't know/ and the theory we throw out (like the theriotype that we dismiss) may be just the one that would have given us the right answer had we held on to it.

By the way, a polytherian has multiple theriotypes that resemble different animals. A cladotherian, on the other hand, has a theriotype that represents a broad range of animals (such as a general canine or feline). Then there are therians who have what I have heard called a "hybrid theriotype", meaning that one theriotype has characteristics of more than one animal, like, maybe a fox with hawk wings, or a horse with wolf fangs. 'There's more things, Horatio, in the world..."
(This post was last modified: 2017-09-08 8:32 by WolfVanZandt.)
2017-09-08 8:27
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Cuddles
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Post: #9
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
Hey Carprincess,
To begin with, I believe that you have placed the thread in the right spot as new comers may have questions about multiple identities.
In case some people are confused because it doesn't seem like the definition of polytherian has been made clear, only alluded to with the first post, polytherian refers to an individual who has more than one theriotype.

Given that I don't know my therian identity yet, nor do I know or have figured out whether I am polytherian or not, I'm not the best in answering some of your questions, but I can try to help provided that I have some knowledge about other people's experiences.

Your first question was:
Do therians with multiple animals have a similar logic? I can't really answer that as i'm not sure what you mean by that.

Your second question was:
Are they primarily one animal, but believe they have had previous lives as another animal, thus they claim that secondary (and even third) animal as their kin? Again, given that I am not polytherian, my answer wouldn't be as great as opposed to someone who is. But I will do my best. The idea of being polytherian is essentially having more than one theriotype. You mentioned as to whether a person is primarily one animal, this experience differs between each person.

For example, a series of people may have two distinct theriotypes, they may be a type of bird of and a cat for instance. One person may feel that they are equally both the bird and the cat, as opposed to someone else who may feel the bird aspect more as opposed to feeling the cat aspect more. Additionally, someone else may feel the cat aspect more as opposed to their bird identity.

Meanwhile, the second part about that question is about ''previous lives''. That is something that differs between person to person due to the belief as to where a persons therianthropy originates. For instance, does therianthropy originate from psychological values, spiritual values or possibly even neurological values? I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter in what value therianthropy originates from as people from either aspect can still identity as polytherian. I should make a note in saying that I don't know a lot about neurological aspect in therianthropy, so I cannot talk about it.

But for instance, a psychological value of therianthropy refers to imprinting and how an individual exposed to particular animals as a child may adopt particular behaviours. As opposed to a spiritual value of therianthropy, such as soul pieces were pieces of souls have fused together or a singular piece may have fused with your own soul. Though each origin distinguishes from each other, there is still the possibility of an individual having multiple theriotypes. They do not necessarily have to come from past lives.

Your third question:
Or do they believe they are a hybrid like a dog/hawk?. Lets take this question a step back a bit. The idea of identifying as a therian is essentially identifying as an Earthly animal - Animals present and found on Earth such as a dog or a hawk like you mentioned. Even though those animals are regarded as Earthly, from my understanding, the formation of a hybrid of those animals wouldn't refer to therianthropy as the hybrid isn't natural in the sense that you wouldn't naturally fInd a hybrid like that. As Damien mentioned before, you would be describing otherkin given its mythological properties. Possibly it can be regarded as fictionkin or fictionkith, although i am not fictionkin or kith, so I cannot explain or interpret that for you.

And your final question:
Or maybe it depends on their mood and a different animal dominates their body, but if that's the case, wouldn't they be kith instead?
The last bit of that question is what I want to focus on. Kith refers to identifying with, not as. Whereas kin refers to identifying as. Lets take a quick look at the definition of polytherian - An individual who has more than one theriotype. Though we cannot determine the theriotypes of others, if a person believes they are of a particular animal(s), they are kin with that particular animal. In saying that, if that is the case, their mood wouldn't define whether they are kin or kinth, as they would be regarded as kin if a person identifies as a particular animal or animals.

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(This post was last modified: 2017-09-08 12:56 by Cuddles.)
2017-09-08 11:47
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Neema
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Post: #10
RE: Multiple Kin Identities Inquiry
(2017-09-08 8:27)WolfVanZandt Wrote:  For instance, yes, there are therians that can sense when someone else is a therian so it isn't even true that "No one can tell if someone is a therian or not - only they can tell that." That's a commonly stated idea and it's convenient for some - it's just not true.

Interesting. Do you say this from personal experience or have you seen it around? I've never heard of the possibility of therians being able to tell that others are therians before.

Would you compare it to how queer people can tell when others are queer? That's the first thing that comes to mind when I think of a comparison.

“He who understands baboon would do more towards metaphysics than Locke.” -Charles Darwin
"Who hasn’t asked himself, am I a monster or is this what it means to be human?" -Clarice Lispector, The Hour of the Star
2017-09-08 18:23
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