[19:10] -irc.weresource.org- *** Looking up your hostname... [19:10] -irc.weresource.org- *** Found your hostname [19:10] * STDCLogger (PircBot@WS239FFA-B663F2CE.org) has joined #stdc [19:10] * Topic is 'Welcome to the Serious Therianthropy Discussion Chat. Logged chats are the second and fourth Sunday monthy, 7PM Eastern. If you have any questions, please ask someone with ops (@). NEXT STDC 5/10 @ 7PM Eastern (4 PM Pacific)' [19:10] * Set by TerrorWolf on Sun May 10 11:52:53 GMT-04:00 2009 [19:10] Welcome everybody and thank you for coming tonight! [19:10] * WolfFriend sets mode +h STDCLogger [19:10] The channel will be moderated while we explain the rules. [19:10] ::: RULES ::: [19:10] If you have any questions, please ask WolfFriend or myself [19:10] Please do not spam the channel with off-topic stuff -- Take it to PM [19:11] Please do not spam the channel with off-topic stuff -- Take it to PM [19:11] When we introduce the topic at the start, we will be voicing/unvoicing participants so they may give cursorary discussions on the topic [19:11] If you would like to speak, please PM myself or WolfFriend and we will voice you so you may say your part [19:11] After we have detailed the conversation enough, it iwll be open for a full discussion [19:11] The reason we do the cursoary is so that any sub-topics of that topic can be raised, and addressed [19:11] Does anyone have any questions? [19:11] * TerrorWolf sets mode -m [19:12] No [19:12] how do you PM from here again? [19:12] Nope. (Bawww, I gotta go, I have to be up in five hours for school. D: See you guys! x) [19:12] i do but they are ecumenical in nature and not related to chan topic ^>.>^ [19:12] moonwolf: Either /query name or double click on theri name [19:12] moonwolf: You should be able to double-click the name on the userlist [19:12] It will open a new tab or window and you can type there [19:12] I.. need to go to bed. Good night, also. [19:12] Anyone else? [19:12] Thanks [19:12] depends on your client. Mine does not do that. [19:12] * TerrorWolf sets mode +m [19:12] Ok [19:13] Many therians have described (what they call) totemic experiences or spirit guides. Do you feel that this is related to therianthropy at all? What about those that are non-therians but have a very close bond to their totem or spirit guide that may resemble therianthropy--when is it not? [19:13] If that fails, type /msg username (message here) [19:13] * TerrorWolf sets mode +v Buffalo [19:13] * SilverTiger (95fe315d@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:13] For me totemism and therianthropy do not overlap. I was given my totem by having bison appearing behind my eyelids every time I closed them in my spiritual support group, then being channeled to in a language that turned out to be Lakota. I have never tried on the body of a bison, let alone feeling myself to somehow actually be one. [19:13] I felt wings but was able to remove and ignore them. [19:13] * Amourosa (81dbbfb1@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc [19:14] So I do not consider myself a therian. [19:14] Queue: Bearcat [19:14] Thank you for the chance to speak. Done. [19:14] Thank you. [19:14] Bearcat is up next [19:14] * WolfFriend sets mode -v+v Buffalo Bearcat [19:14] er..buffalo you need to talk longer so i can gather my thoughts and look smart. [19:15] Should I return the talking stick? [19:15] no, i'm still chewing on it. I'll be fine. [19:15] Ok [19:15] for me they overlap. [19:15] Queue: TigerAcolyte [19:15] * Oblivian (55e39fb3@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:16] In my case, my inner vision and sense of self may be the same as i lived in another life. I'm still trying to determine what is "real" and what is not about all that. [19:17] My guides look like similar beings to myself one more wolf-like another catlike as i am. [19:17] i also have what may be memories of interacting with them as physical beings somehow/somewhere. [19:18] Queue: TigerAcolyte, GhiaDon [19:19] totemicly i have difficulty with the concept. Most of or modern ideas on totemism, are very modern. Usually one's clan would have a guiding animal spirtit or one's tribe. It was not an individual thing. This idea of individual totems seems to be an idea that has poped up an taken hold in the last 40 years or so. [19:20] be that as it may, people can often feel strong influences from totemic animals which may be confused for therianthopy. My general take on it is that thereianthropy is *internal* whereas a totemic influence is *external*. For people that are new to either idea that can be hard to explain and feel out. [19:21] Many get confused by that and feel themselves to be therianthropes when they are infact just heavily influenced by a totem, or visa-versa. [19:21] so it's a connected idea, just like Furry is. [19:22] i feel like im rambling now. [19:22] Hands the chewed on stick to WolfFriend. "There i left some cat-spit on there for you to give it extra flavor!" [19:22] Hehe [19:22] Thank you [19:22] anytime [19:22] Next up is TigerAcolyte [19:23] you want more just ask [19:23] * WolfFriend nods [19:23] * WolfFriend sets mode -v+v Bearcat TigerAcolyte [19:23] Queue: GhiaDon [19:23] In my opinion, Therianthropy, taken as a whole, [19:23] (Oh gosh, cut + paste doesn't work >_< ) [19:24] *One moment please* [19:25] has little to do with totemic experiences and/or spirit guides. [19:26] However, this does not mean the two areas cannot overlap. I will not go into how they can overlap, as the possibilities are endless. [19:26] Instead, I will explain how I see the two subjects as naturally unrelated. [19:26] There is a fine line between being one with a spirit guide and being "yourself." [19:27] Both can be on and off experiences, but only one can vanish from your life without some sort of consequence. [19:27] A spirit guide and/or totem can change over time. [19:28] In fact, from what I've read about the subject consistently among several sources, [19:28] totems come and go as they see fit "for you." [19:28] They are also meant to give you power to learn and grow off of--they have a definite purpose for being in your life. [19:29] Therianthropy, however, does not necessarily have a purpose for being part of an individual. [19:29] One's therian essence cannot "leave" without there being some sort of consequence illustrated over time. [19:29] I quote "leave" because that's what someone might just as well call it. [19:30] However, by "leave", I actually mean lock-up in the deepest reaches of the mind where direct influence, [19:30] from the therian component, over one's life is limited. [19:31] Nevertheless, it will still affect the individual's life through this limited influence it still retains, hence the long time it would take for [19:31] back-lash to build up to any appreciable level. [19:31] The opposite is true with spirit-guides/totems. *Cuts off thoughts* [19:31] I am done. [19:31] * TerrorWolf sets mode -v+v TigerAcolyte GhiaDon [19:31] * graylocke (graylocke@WS239FFA-10347DF9.static.internode.on.net) has joined #stdc [19:31] Thank you TigerAcolyte [19:33] GhiaDon is up [19:34] I can say from my own experience that I do not believe that therianthropy and guides/totems have much in relation, if any relation at all. [19:35] I do not have a guide or totem myself, and neither did I have one in my past. But I am a therian none the less. [19:37] There seems to be many therians who do have one, or several, or many, and I think (not know, this is just my hypothesis) is that being a therian makes you more open to things, like your spiritual side, and you are more welcoming to see and explore, therefore you have a better chance of identifying guides. [19:38] But if you do not have one, then you just do not see it, however open you may be. It does not disclude me being a therian because I do not have a guide, so I do not think that there is a relation between the two. [19:38] That's all I have to add, with everyone else's comments. [19:38] Thank you [19:38] If there is no one else who would like to give their thoughts, we will go into open discussion. [19:39] * TerrorWolf sets mode -m [19:39] * WolfFriend sets mode -v GhiaDon [19:39] Everyone can speak now :) [19:39] *mew*? [19:39] :p [19:40] well...i don't quite know what to say. I think we're all on the same page here, yeah? [19:40] I believe so. [19:40] *nods* So it seems. [19:40] From who has spoken, yes :P [19:40] UYes [19:40] Has anyone ever done a "journey" or whatever to find a spirit guide and simply not found one? [19:40] I have heard one say that it seems that therians do have a tendency to pick up "spirit guides" [19:40] * Shonsu yips [19:40] wooo! [19:40] Shonsu :P [19:41] WolfFriend: ahh, so there is one among us whom is not to be trusted!? I knew it!! It's terrorwolf, isn't it [19:41] * Shonsu was away fromkeyboard dancing to feelgood music [19:41] lol WolfFriend [19:41] err [19:41] ... [19:41] ha ha [19:41] lol Bearcat [19:41] Depends on what you mean as "journey"? [19:41] ;) [19:41] I have not done a journey to seek out a spirit guide [19:41] WolfFriend: you get more cat-like every day. Keep it up. There is hope for you yet. [19:41] :P [19:41] Like a special meditation or something, at least made a credible, legit effort to find one [19:41] I *have* journeyed otherwise. I have interacted with spirits. But I am not in any formal "guide" relationship with any. [19:42] Amourosa: that's an interesting question. I'd tend to trust a result wherein i did not find one than when i did. [19:42] I didn't find too many of my guides through a specific meditation. Quite a few of them, but some of them just.. occured to me, if you will. <.< [19:42] Being a Christian, the Holy Spirit is my primary spirit guide, as it is :P [19:42] Ah, no, I haven't with the specific intention of finding a guide. [19:42] I have led such a journey. A short one with novices but most people seemed to find a guide. [19:42] mm [19:42] WolfFriend: what is the difference between the Holy Spirit and the HGA? [19:42] HGA? [19:43] Well, I ask because I talk to people who say, "I don't have a spirit guide" or "not everyone has a spirit guide" or a similar relationship with a spiritual entity . . . and then I ask if they've ever looked and they say, "No." [19:43] Holy Guardian Angel the Crowlien expression of the Inner-higher self [19:43] So . . . [19:43] Ah. I don't know much about that entity. [19:43] * Shonsu has to admit that he does not understand totems and for all he knows has never had a spirit guide [19:43] Aleister Crowley FTW [19:43] The Holy Spirit is one of the persons of the triune God. [19:43] So it is God. [19:43] I mean, my spirit guide was with me before I started working with her [19:44] So, just because I wasn't working with her doesn't mean she wasn't there, I still had a guide [19:44] Could one have a totem or spirit guide that is the same as one's therioside? And how would you know? [19:44] as lame as it sounds, one of mine have been around since i was four. [19:44] Yeah, mine's a white wolf [19:44] * SerpentineZebra has nothing really to say about totems or spirit guides except a feeling that I have one of each [19:44] That is the same? [19:44] moonwolf: if you met a wolf, would you be able to tell the difference between it and yourself? [19:44] *loves Serase* [19:44] moonwolf, I think that in that situation, it may be a question of is it you or not you? [19:44] Ah, like Bearcat said [19:45] mmm [19:45] good statement BC [19:45] I see. [19:45] thank you [19:45] moonwolf: By the way, did you get my PM? [19:45] Yeah, good one BC [19:45] I think I have a zebra as a spirit guide (though it acts more like a muse than anything), and lately, it seems, a wasp as a shadow totem [19:45] I suppose it is the perspective. I don't view myself in the third person. [19:45] Interestingly I seemed to have my grandmother as a spirit guide until I became aware of her, then she moved on. [19:45] GhiaDon: what is the same? [19:45] That's cool, Buffalo [19:45] :) [19:46] Buffalo: I got a really funny image from that, but that is pretty awesome [19:46] i asked one of my guides once "How do i know you are real?" He asked me if he had given me good advice, shown me love and guided me well. I said "yes." He said "if i am not real then it was *you* doing those things. Isn't that even better?" [19:46] maybe you'll become a spirit guide for your offspring :p [19:46] No WolfFriend, I didn't get a PM [19:46] moonwolf, it should show up as a tab on the top of your screen? [19:46] or on the bottom, actually [19:46] WolfFriend: mine show up on the top . . . [19:46] Amourosa, depends on the client :P [19:47] WolfFriend: Ohhh, okay! :D [19:47] Amourosa, I don't understand your question. [19:47] GhiaDon: above you asked "That is the same?" I was asking you to clarify what "that" was. [19:47] Maybe so WF, it seems I have a psychic bond with my grandson already. [19:47] Neither at top nor bottom???? [19:48] Ah, I was responding to your question on if one could have a therioside and guide that was similiar and didn't know it? That's what I thought you asked. [19:48] * WolfFriend (Ben@wsserv.weresource.org) Quit (Connection reset by peer) [19:48] i didn't do it!! [19:48] Oh, no I was saying that a, say, wolf therian could also have a Wolf totem/spirit guide. [19:48] YES YOU DID!!! [19:48] >.> [19:48] * WolfFriend (Ben@wsserv.weresource.org) has joined #stdc [19:48] * ChanServ sets mode +o WolfFriend [19:48] nuh-uh! [19:49] wolfriend did it! [19:49] GhiaDon: did that help? (my reply above) [19:49] er..hi WolfFriend [19:49] :o [19:49] :P [19:49] Hehe [19:49] WolfFriend: how COULD YOU@?@ [19:49] Bearcat: I saw what you said via tha logger window :P [19:49] * Bearcat *licks a paw and looks the innocent cat he is* [19:49] Amourosa, I see now, I think my replies when off track. You can disregard them if you like, haha. [19:50] moonwolf: There should be a button or a tab under the chat area with my name on it? [19:51] I see it [19:51] GhiaDon: what does your username mean? Or the significance of it, I guess? [19:51] that is my PM window, moonwolf [19:51] Amourosa: No significance, Karmann Ghia was my favorite car, Don is my name. [19:52] do I click it or something WolfFriend? [19:52] There, 2nd topic is replied to. ^^ I'm a happy kitty [19:52] Yup, moonwolf. [19:52] You click it and you can see my PM [19:52] cool [19:52] Then to get back you click on #weresource [19:52] err [19:52] #stdc [19:52] Amourosa: Your name have any special meaning? [19:52] OK will do [19:52] * Bearcat listens to Porcupine Tree [19:52] GhiaDon: cool, hold on [19:52] Are we ready for the next topic? [19:52] * Shonsu listens to Animal Collective [19:52] YES!!! [19:52] Aye [19:52] porcupine tree. <3 [19:52] * TerrorWolf sets mode +m [19:53] Many therians desire to be open about their therianthropy with others, but for many people, it is something that is very weird and therefore can lead to misunderstanding and (especially for minors) parents trying to keep their kids away from the therianthropy community because they feel it to be a bad influence. However, many have also had great successes in being open about their therianthropy to others. What kinds of concerns do you face if you want [19:53] Cut off [19:53] oh [19:53] What kinds of concerns do you face if you want to share your feelings with your loved ones and friends? If you had success in doing so, what worked for you, or what didn't work for you? [19:54] Bearcat is up first [19:54] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Bearcat [19:54] i was just saying "but i dont' want to go first I'm just gathering my thoughts" [19:54] heh [19:54] can i go second? [19:54] Sure [19:54] * TerrorWolf sets mode -v+v Bearcat Shonsu [19:54] Shonsu will be up then [19:54] woo! [19:54] Queue: Bearcat [19:54] thank you BC :) [19:55] The topic is very correct in reffering to therianthropy as "weird" and that is the very reason that I have trouble talking to my friends and family about it [19:55] Queue: Bearcat, WolfFriend [19:56] in fact, I believe that one of the specific reasons I have trouble talking about is because it is so weird that I myself havent even fully accepted it yet [19:57] personally I fear talking to friends and family about it because i am convinced that they will all either have negative reactions about it or simply brush it off as a joke [19:57] that would not be good for my current process of accepting it myself' [19:57] Queue: Bearcat, TigerAcolyte, WolfFriend, Nessbeast [19:57] I have a secret fear that my mother can convince me that everything I believe in is a self generated lie [19:58] however there have been a few people I have told [19:58] I think that it is wise to consider who you tell [19:58] it is not something that is easily approachable (for me at least) but it is not impossible [19:59] im done for now [19:59] thank you! [19:59] Thank you :) [19:59] * TerrorWolf sets mode -v+v Shonsu Bearcat [19:59] Next up is Bearcat [19:59] Queue: TigerAcolyte, WolfFriend, Nessbeast, GhiaDon [20:00] mew? [20:00] is this thing on? [20:00] no :-P [20:00] oh, [20:00] er..something jumps out at me there shonsu, but it's not directed at you specificly [20:01] if you are afraid to tell someone because you fear they may convonce you out of it, perhaps you are afraid of a truth. [20:01] i could talk about this for hours but i'll try to coalesce my thoughts [20:03] there are three things that make me "wierd" that i don't tell everyone, in order of what may make them the most uneasy and make my life difficult to be exposed. 1) my sexuality (bi/omnisexual), my therianthropy and the fact that i am polyamourus and have two mates/lovers. [20:03] (a triad) [20:05] i tend to treat the first two the same. I don't tell everyone that i am a omisexual therianthrope, but i don't *hide* it either. If someone is making prejoritive comments about gays i will step up. I don't tell everyone that i have a cat-soul, but many many people have looked at me (strangers mostly) and said things like "are you some sort of cat-person"?). I did fully disclose all three to a co-worker whom is my only [20:05] confidant in this small somewhat-hick town [20:06] my relationships are a secret really. In fact none of you would know had that cat not been let out of the bag (so to speak) [20:06] but usually when i tell people about my therianthropy i am told "yeah, i knew that" or "yeah, you have always seemed like a cat to me anyway." [20:07] my parents said that same thing to me. "yes, dear i always knew you were a cat. Pas me the salt will you?" [20:07] i'm really off topic today, i apologise. [20:08] I think you are relatively on topic. [20:08] in reality, i think it's not that strange or a big deal. I've been aware of it since i was 6 and it always seemed 'normal' to me. [20:08] so because i am relaxed about it, others are too when i tell them. [20:08] hell, my name is Bearcat MoonWind Sandor, and my company is Feline Soul Systems. [20:08] hiding it? Not much. [20:09] i think that if it is someone whom you are worried about how they will take it, beacuase they are close to you then it is worth examining that realationship more clostley. [20:09] i couldn't bear to hide what i am from anyone let alone my clostest loved ones. [20:09] i'm too honest. [20:10] also, when i tell some one especially someone who may be skeptical and who has no idea what i am talking about, i get some of the best questions to go back and grill myself with. [20:10] That alone makes it all worth it. [20:10] There is more but i'm passing this bone to Wolffriend. [20:11] thanks [20:11] Thank you :) [20:11] Next up is TigerAcolyte [20:11] * WolfFriend sets mode -v+v Bearcat TigerAcolyte [20:11] Queue: WolfFriend, Nessbeast, GhiaDon [20:11] Being one who had problems with their therian component a few years before [20:12] even finding to be called Therianthropy, it wasn't all that difficult to share what was going on inside of me with others. [20:12] I say it wasn't difficult because there was no possibility of being linked to what an average person might [20:12] construe as a genre of people too lost in their own fantasies, or simply linked to a "silly" label. [20:13] What made it easier to share with others was that my strong interest in tigers was already well-known to those who knew me. [20:14] Also, I so deeply cared, and still do care, for tigers (and so myself as well) so much, that I didn't care if [20:14] someone thought of me as "being ridiculous" when I told them. [20:14] Tigers were/are far more important to me than any one's opinion, as thick headed as it sounds. [20:15] Granted, I didn't make a point of telling everyone of what was going on inside of me, [20:15] but I did speak of it to those that would be indirectly affected by its ever-growing impact on the way I lived. [20:15] Trying to keep it hidden from those I spent most of my time around, for fear of having action taken against me, generally [20:16] just kept my stress level way too high, which is what drove me to finally fill those individuals in on what I was. [20:17] I had already concluded many times in my mind that my soul was within 5% of a tiger's long before the symptoms of a surfacing therioside occurred. [20:17] * Loki (4c147fa4@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc [20:17] However, ultimately, I found the easiest way to convey seriousness and sincerity over my therianthropy was to write out what was going on inside of me, [20:18] proof read it, make sure I had said everything I wanted to say about it, make sure it sounded at least somewhat believible, [20:19] then keep a relaxed, but serious expression after handing it to whoever I so wished to "enlighten". [20:19] * Loki (4c147fa4@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:19] * Loki (4c147fa4@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc [20:20] My advice: don't speak of it in anything short of a stern, serious-yet-relaxed, and resolute voice, or else the other person might begin to think you're not being truthful [20:20] No matter what their reaction, take things calmly, and politely excuse yourself if you find that you are unable to proceed with a calm/relaxed, yet serious [20:21] approach. [20:21] * Lerangfang (Lerangfang@WS239FFA-5A8DD3B4.eastlink.ca) has joined #stdc [20:22] * TerrorWolf sets mode -v+v TigerAcolyte WolfFriend [20:22] Thank you, I hope that TigerAcolyte was finished? [20:23] * TerrorWolf sets mode +v TigerAcolyte [20:23] brushed or lightly delved into the subject, closer/deeper and deeper each time. [20:23] Though it wasn't on purpose, I do think that helps to get the person more receptive to the idea over [20:24] time. That way, when one does open up all out, they know this isn't just something coming out of the blue. [20:24] Much more I'd love to say, but I've said enough [20:24] I'm done [20:24] * TerrorWolf sets mode -v TigerAcolyte [20:25] Thank you :) [20:26] Ok [20:26] TigerAcolyte, you will have to later go over some of what you said, I think you got cut off [20:26] But for the interest of time we'll keep things moving here [20:26] For me [20:27] I have been very hidden about my thoughts, my therianthropy, and related issues for years [20:27] Even to my parents. I would be very closed off. [20:27] But, eventually, like TigerAcolyte said, the stress was mounting, and I needed to tell my folks. I am also very open with them and I don't like to lie. So it was another reason for me to come out. [20:28] I had been thinking about it for over a year, as this is obviously a difficult subject to broach. [20:28] When I worked up the courage, I had a plan. I talked about my feelings, and my evolution of these feelings over the years. I sent it in an email (writing is good for getting all your feelings out in an organized way anyway) [20:28] I didn't mention terms or the community at all in it. Just what I felt and experienced. [20:29] It went very well for me. My parents were accepting, and intrigued, as well as happy that I felt comfortable telling them my deepest thoughts, as they put it. [20:29] I still have yet to talk to them about it in person (that comes after I finish school here), but it went really well. [20:30] I later on the phone talked about the community and terms, but I found that information ancillary and not really important, as it is what I feel that matters in this kind of thing. [20:31] I think though, that my method of doing it this way helped reduce liklihood of them thinking I latched onto some group fad or the like. I think going into it saying "therianthropy" and "see, that's what this person said about it" is the wrong approach (at least it was for me), as it seems that's one way many people start thinking that you are latching onto a fad [20:31] You gain credibility too by explaining things yourself with your own words. Because it shows that you own these feelings and know what you are experiencing, and that it is real to you. [20:31] That is my opinion. [20:32] I think I will finish her, and pass on the talking stick. [20:32] * Tobisaurus (meow@WS239FFA-3908F2E4.cvx1-c.lee.dial.ntli.net) has joined #stdc [20:32] Next up is Nessbeast [20:32] * WolfFriend sets mode -v+v WolfFriend Nessbeast [20:32] whoo. :D okay. so. my turn. [20:32] On the first subject, I'm.. not really the sort of person who would fear really.. showing off parts of m yself [20:33] Queue: GhiaDon, Lerangfang [20:33] at all, though I can understand why some people would want to hold onto their secrets. Especially for people who are pack/familially oriented, and especially for therians whose animals are, the fear of rejection is very real and probably justified. Most often, the people I tell respond with O_o expressions, though I tend to surround myself with people who take me as weird anyway. [20:34] i think the worst result *I* ever got was someone scoffing at me and sayng to stop playing around with my fantasy world. :/ I try not to let too many things on that end bother me. There are lots of people I haven't told, and probably never will. [20:35] my family, for instance. Most of my friends. being a therian is something I'm actually very private about, I think you people are the first I've discussed it with outside the company of very few friends. I have found, howeve, what works for me [20:36] * graylocke (graylocke@WS239FFA-10347DF9.static.internode.on.net) has left #stdc [20:36] both in admitting therianism and also in admitting other fringe-culture thngs I'm involvd with-- attempting to gage the persons you're around. For instance, there are some people I know who scoff at religion or at paganism, and around them, I probably would be less inclined to mention, for instance, that I am neoshamanic, and definately that I feel non-human at best. [20:36] I just try toget a feel for people, and if they're open-minded about things, especially spiritual things, only THEN will i risk telling them anything on that subjecgt at all. [20:37] sorry if that was like.. not collected or on topic very much. it sounded a lot better in my head. [20:37] a looooot better [20:37] done. [20:37] <.< [20:37] Thank you :) [20:37] * TerrorWolf sets mode -v+v Nessbeast GhiaDon [20:37] * moonwolf (moonwolf@WS239FFA-65405AC0.dyn.centurytel.net) Quit (Quit: moonwolf) [20:37] Ah, thank you. [20:39] I agree with wolffriend entirely about not using the community as an example when you tell people about yourself, as it leads them to think that some external influence has convinced you that you feel/experience certain things. [20:42] I have told a few friends about myself, though in indirect truths that they are easier to understand. I will usually say that "I feel more like a rabbit than a person", it is not entirely the truth but if the person isn't able to relate to the entire truth then a partial is acceptable, at least to me. [20:42] * moonwolf (moonwolf@WS239FFA-65405AC0.dyn.centurytel.net) has joined #stdc [20:43] I prefer to have partial understanding as compared to no understanding. If later on they show interest and ask me questions, I will clarify and tell them more. [20:44] Now, this is probably an easier explaination because my therioside has been domesticated, and people can and do have close relationships with them, so they may interpret it as "you just really like them" or "you feel so close to them that you can relate to them". [20:45] So, I do not run into any danger of people thinking that I am ust being silly, as there is a reasonable explaiation for why I say I feel like a rabbit, whatever reason they believe. [20:46] Going by the indirect truth works for me, but it may not be the best for most. [20:46] I don't know if I have been entirely clear. [20:47] Anyone else want to speak on this topic? [20:47] Yes, TerrorWolf [20:47] We have one more [20:47] ok [20:47] GhiaDon is done? [20:47] Yes. [20:47] Ok [20:47] Lerangfang is next [20:48] * WolfFriend sets mode -v+v GhiaDon Lerangfang [20:48] You are up, Lerangfang [20:48] Afterwards we have open discussion [20:48] thnx [20:48] I do agree with the opinion that you shoudnt involve the community, as also giving people the gist of the topic [20:49] fortunately I had the messed situation of telling my friends when I had my first dream shift [20:49] * Stealth (StealthSha@B76D0E6F.1622617C.5B1E2302.IP) has joined #stdc [20:49] I told them of my dream shift...believing I was a werewolf... [20:50] obviously i know more now. [20:50] Though I don't think I'll tell my family. One reason is I fear their reaction. [20:51] and plus I like to keep this private in a way. I'm more open to my friends weirdly. [20:51] But telling people is never easy for sure. Unfortunately a lot of people have to tell someone, wheter it be their most trusting friend, or the goth that they tlak with occasionally in class. [20:52] Of course, like other personal things, it never is easy telling anybody any personal things. [20:52] I guess the only thing you can do is work up the courage and the second you're about to back out, just tell them. [20:53] I guess thats all you can do. It never is easy. [20:53] And that's my thoughts. [20:53] Thank you [20:53] We will now open up for open discussion [20:53] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Lerangfang [20:53] * WolfFriend sets mode -m [20:53] GhiaDon: may a grill you for a moment? [20:53] I have to say, Wolffriend struck a very important point [20:54] :) [20:54] Bearcat: Sure. [20:54] TigerAcolyte: that he did. [20:54] for those of you who told those close to you about your therianthropy, have you ever gotten an unfavorable response? of the peple I know, they think less ofthose who make some comfession through electronic means than in person. [20:54] GhiaDon: what is 3 + 2? [20:54] :o [20:54] * Elidolente (Guest11@WS239FFA-5E4ED545.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) has joined #stdc [20:54] My friend still thinks im a werewolf even after I explained her Theriantropy? [20:54] explained to her* [20:54] Hi, Elidolente. You just missed the "coming out' topic. The 2nd one will be last. [20:54] Loki: the first question my mother asked me was "are you sexually attracted to cats?" I thought about it and said "no." [20:55] Mentioning specific terms of the community will increase the chances of the person shutting your words out [20:55] Bearcat: Why are you asking me that? I don't know what you are trying to do. Answer is five, in anycase... [20:55] Branding you "identity crisis" or some other silly thing [20:55] * Loki laughs. [20:55] GhiaDon: ah ha!! You are no rabbit. Rabbits can only count to 4. :"P [20:55] Loki: I explained therianthropy to one of the two friends who I thought would be accepting and he said he thought it couldn't happen and wasn't real. I was very disappointed. [20:55] And thats the fear a lot of people sadly have. of being shut out [20:55] Bearcat: You and your jokes :P [20:55] that's not entirely what I meant, but it's certainly an unfavorable response, Bearcat. xD [20:55] The internet has a "Don't believe it, don't trust it" stigma the older generations generally won't look beyond, in my experience [20:56] mm [20:56] How unfortunate, Amourosa. [20:56] GhiaDon: if you have not read "Watership Down", i emplore you, do so. Also, Tales from Watership down (it's sequel is very good too) [20:56] When I told my parents about the community, they (well, they have a thing about people on the internet anyway) said "be careful about crazies" more or less. I can only wonder how they would have reacted if I mentioned the community first. [20:56] Amourosa: Well ya told them. Thats about all you should do if they arent open to the idea. [20:56] And though they do trust my judgement, that's how they see the internet. [20:57] Loki: well, i in retrospect i wish i had said "pussy, or cats mother?" [20:57] >_> [20:57] I'm sorry, Amourosa [20:57] Bearcat: I have read it, a long time ago, and seen the film, but I wasn't aware of a sequel. [20:57] I can certainly realte to that, WolfFriend, yes. [20:57] Lerangfang: Yeah, I know. It was just really deflating to my hopes that this guy would say it couldn't be real. I didn't tell him about me, I just asked him about therianthropy [20:57] you can trust the internet? ;) [20:57] * WolfFriend nods at Loki [20:57] geek: :o [20:57] that would haev been hilarious, Bearcat. [20:57] GhiaDon: it's a collecton of short stories. [20:58] I have red the sequel to Watership Down. it's very good. [20:58] Bearcat: that would have been so funny! [20:58] WolfFriend: you know my story, found ww.com. took a week, and decided working things out online wasn't for me ;) [20:58] * Shonsu yawns [20:58] amourosa: what exactly did you till your friend? [20:58] Yup, geek [20:58] Loki: thing was, i thought about it seriously before answering. I mean if i have a feline brain why would i not be? But i'm not a normal cat anyhow. [20:58] Amourosa: And thats the fear. If you tell another person make sure you tell someone that's really open to ideas. [20:58] and did you cite the online therianthropic community? [20:58] hmm [20:59] Bearcat: I would have had to do the same thing. I don't find that odd. [20:59] Amourosa: wether it is real to them does not matter. It is real to you. However, it still hurts to have your reality rejected. [20:59] yes it is [20:59] Elidolente: I told him I'd been doing some spiritual research and ran across this term. I didn't cite any online community because I didn't know if he was open to the idea. I explained the terms "therianthropy" and "therian" and asked what he thought about it. This was all done in facebook chat, by the way. [20:59] * J (J@WS239FFA-C67A325B.nycap.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~) [21:00] Bearcat: Well, maybe its cause my family is *really* concervative, and they don't even understand the geek subculture, but i don't expect them to ever understand things, [21:00] Bearcat: no kidding, I felt like he was rejecting me personally. Like he was telling me, "You can't exist like this, it's not real for you." And he's so open-minded, I was completely blindsided by it [21:00] Amourosa: I'm sorry it didn't go well. [21:00] low expections = hard to be dissapointed ;) [21:00] hmm, well the guy just seems a bit close minded, [21:00] * Nessbeast (Nessbeast@WS239FFA-C05AE068.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [21:00] * J (J@WS239FFA-C67A325B.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #stdc [21:01] i think the point needs to be made that in general this community *weresource, crossroads, werelist and awareness forums) are all places designed for introspection, challenging each other and to have a place where we feel safe doing so. I don't even like telling people about the community when i'm not sure what their reaction is gonna be. If someone is beligerant with me about my thereianthopy i will keep them away from here. [21:01] mm [21:01] * Shonsu nods [21:01] * graylocke (graylocke@WS239FFA-10347DF9.static.internode.on.net) has joined #stdc [21:02] Amourosa: my father was like that for most of my life. [21:02] I wonder if exposing some one to a community when they're obviously not willing to believe it exists would alter their opinion, or just make it worse. [21:02]