[19:03] -irc.weresource.org- *** Looking up your hostname... [19:03] -irc.weresource.org- *** Found your hostname [19:03] * STDCLogger (PircBot@WS239FFA-B663F2CE.org) has joined #STDC [19:03] * Topic is 'Welcome to the Serious Therianthropy Discussion Chat. Chats are the second and fourth Sunday of every month at 7PM Eastern (GMT-5) and will be logged. During other times this channel may be used for serious therianthropy discussions. If you have any questions, please ask someone with ops (@).' [19:03] * Set by WolfFriend on Tue Feb 17 12:03:44 GMT-05:00 2009 [19:15] * WolfFriend sets mode +m [19:15] We will be starting now [19:15] If you want to continue intro discussion, take it to PM, please :) [19:15] Welcome to the serious therianthropy discussion [19:16] We will keep this moderated while we descrbe the rules [19:16] describe* [19:16] Pastedos will lay them out for us shortly :) [19:17] Let me just uhh, reference my notes ;) [19:17] :P [19:18] (Sorry, it's been a couple weeks so I don't have it offhand) [19:18] * NullAshton (Ashton@WS239FFA-86F10A34.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #STDC [19:18] Ok, again thank you all for coming [19:18] the following are the rules that we use for the discussion [19:18] 1) If you have any questions please ask myself, WolfFriend, or Terrorwolf [19:19] 2) Please do not spam the channel with off-topic stuff -- Take it to PM [19:19] 3) When we introduce the topic at the start, we will be voicing/unvoicing participants so they may give cursorary discussions on the topic [19:19] * Crossfire (Crossfire@3C95A49D.91BACA7F.8FBBE41E.IP) has joined #STDC [19:19] f you would like to speak, please PM myself, WolfFriend, or Terrorwolf and we will voice you so you may say your part [19:19] After we have detailed the conversation enough, it iwll be open for a full discussion [19:20] Each person will have 5 minutes [19:20] Each discussion will be 30 minutes in length [19:20] open sessions after each topic are 15 minutes [19:21] Do we have any questions? [19:21] * Pastedos sets mode -m [19:21] Roger dodger, Green Wolf may be joining in a few [19:21] * Sonne (474d1a11@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #STDC [19:21] * WolfFriend sets mode +h STDCLogger [19:21] Welcome Sonne [19:21] I wonder if any of the people I invited are here [19:21] hello Sonne [19:21] Momentarily we will be re-modding the channel for the first topic [19:22] Hey Sonne [19:22] * Green (4400250d@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #STDC [19:22] and at that time we will ask the first question [19:22] Any final questions? [19:22] hmm... [19:22] I do [19:23] ok [19:23] Should we try and place a minimum on how much we say? [19:23] Just try to limit it to 5 minutes [19:23] * Green (4400250d@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:23] if you paste an answer, I will try to allow time after you paste for people to read your response [19:23] * GreenWolf (4400250d@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #STDC [19:24] Ok, then I will be re-modding the channel [19:24] um [19:24] I mean, how short it is [19:24] If you wish to speak on the topic, please pm Terrorwolf, WolfFriend, or myself [19:24] * TerrorWolf sets mode +m [19:24] no [19:24] it can be any length [19:24] SherlawkDragon1: There is no min length [19:24] Just a max [19:24] as long as it is appropriate [19:24] What we want to do is let people say whatever they want. Regulating the content is inappropriate I think :P [19:24] * TerrorWolf sets mode +v SherlawkDragon1 [19:24] The starter question is as follows [19:25] * SherlawkDragon1 is now known as SherlawkDragon [19:25] * As therians, most of us have urges that, in human society, probably wouldn't be socially accepted, because of our non-human natures. How do you deal with these urges? Do you suppress them or do you find a way to satisfy the urge without causing a scene, or do you do something else? If you shift, how do you deal with shifts in public? [19:25] Sherlawk is starting us off tonight [19:25] thanks! [19:25] I have urges like that, it's what that "licking yourself in public" thread I post on forums is about. It varies how much it happens, but I often have a spontaneous desire to do something like that. Sometimes I'm actually not sure whether it's my therianthropy acting up, or just me being silly. [19:25] I usually deal with it by either pushing it aside or doing it. I don't really have to worry about the people around me, because most of them already know. When I'm around people who don't, I either find a non-obvious way to deal with it, or I don't act on it all together. I am capable of self control you know. [19:25] that's all I had to say. [19:26] * Buffalo is now known as Buffalo_ [19:26] Ok, thanks Sherlawk [19:26] (I'm done, we can move on) [19:26] Next will be... [19:26] wolfpaws [19:26] * Pastedos sets mode -v SherlawkDragon [19:26] Queue: Kumiho, WindSeeker, Anuolf [19:26] * Pastedos sets mode +v wolfpaws [19:26] Thanks. [19:27] TW and Pastedos will be momentarily afk for a minute or two, so if you want to be added to the queue, PM me. [19:28] Since I'm usually in a "shifted state", I don't need to worry about that... I just surpress the urges to be a wolf while I'm in public... Well, At least while I'm with people I know of... [19:28] Queue: Kumiho, WindSeeker, Anuolf, Gryphling, Bearcat [19:29] It might be a little depressing, but I can act like a wolf behind four walls. That's good enough for me :] [19:29] Is that it, wolfpaws? Or do you have more? [19:29] And, since that answers all the questions asked for the topic, I'll give the mic to the nexy person. [19:30] Thank you :) [19:30] Next up is Kumiho [19:30] Welcome [19:30] * WolfFriend sets mode -v wolfpaws [19:30] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Kumiho [19:30] I usually not much of a social person, so most of my shifts occur when no one is around. But, I usually just allow my shifts to happen whether in private or public. Most people that don't know that I am a therian describe me as excentric, so any odd behavior is usually chalked up to me just being weird. [19:30] Queue: WindSeeker, Anuolf, Gryphling, Bearcat, Lenowill [19:30] did that cut off? [19:30] Nope [19:30] You're fine. [19:31] Stopped at "just being weird." [19:31] ometimes my excentric (read as therianthropic) behavior does go against the grain of human society and one of two things usually happen in those situations: someone shoos me away politely or everyone just ignores me. [19:31] I mostly get away with indulging in my shifts by (when not shifted) being contageously upbeat and helpful to others when they need it; this projection of myself usually is received well by others and they will usually put up with my oddities in return. [19:32] Also, often times, publicly displayed shifted behavior can become the elephant in the living room, so to speak. Everyone sees it but no one wants to deal with it (mostly because they don't know where to start). [19:32] In situations where a shift would be a disaster (ie: giving a presentation, in the middle of a debate, etc) I "hold off" the shift for a period of time by allowing some of the more minor aspects (species-specific manorisms) of the shift to go through while resisting the more noticable aspects (becoming virtually non-verbal, urges to get away from people). [19:32] It helps that most of my shifts are phantom shifts and I'm pretty much always majoratively mentally shifted to begin with. [19:32] That's all, thanks. [19:32] (I have returned) [19:32] Thank you. [19:33] Next up is WindSeeker [19:33] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Kumiho [19:33] * WolfFriend sets mode +v WindSeeker [19:33] Queue: Anuolf, Gryphling, Bearcat, Lenowill [19:33] * Anuolf (4229a5a6@WS239FFA-B3ED0CDA.mibbit.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:33] Welcome back Pastedos [19:33] Most of my shifts are also phantom shifts, but those shifts include a change in my perception of the world around me [19:33] * Anuolf (4229a5a6@WS239FFA-B3ED0CDA.mibbit.com) has joined #STDC [19:33] * NightStorm (4cb54fc2@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #STDC [19:34] * geek (geek@WS239FFA-C1C91D0.delta16.maxonline.com.sg) has joined #STDC [19:34] my physical body is quite on the small side, while my therioside is... bigger [19:35] so I use my shifts when I can to get a better vantage of my surroundings, though I don't know what kind of shifts the perception episodes are [19:35] as to "urges" I often feel like I want to fly, and howl, and often indulge the later when I am alone XD [19:36] I'm usually quiet and introverted anyway, but I find that I shift much easier when I am either on the move or in a social situation [19:36] * Elidolente (Elidolente@D50309B7.1BDC030B.C71F27A6.IP) Quit (Quit: Elidolente) [19:36] and that's it :) [19:36] Thank you. [19:36] And, next up is Anuolf [19:36] * WolfFriend sets mode -v WindSeeker [19:36] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Anuolf [19:37] Queue: Gryphling, Bearcat, Lenowill [19:37] Usually, my urges are easily managed. They consist of general vocalizations and little actions. Sometimes I can manage to let loose somewhat since I've already had a reputation of being weird so normally, people just shrug it off. [19:37] * Crossfire (Crossfire@3C95A49D.91BACA7F.8FBBE41E.IP) Quit (Quit: Crossfire) [19:37] However, I have had urges that I either needed to supress it, or go along with it. I am able to hold off until I'm in a more private setting [such as my apartment or alone in a park/wooded area]. In the company of my mate, I'm allowed to let loose as much as I want. So urges are rare. [19:37] Oh, and for those that just joined, we are on the first topic, listed on the front page of www.weresource.org [19:38] Queue: Gryphling, Bearcat, Lenowill, NightStorm [19:38] On the off chance that I do get a dangerous urge, I usually try to take it out by doing something relaxing or by distracting myself so it's not as strong. [19:38] And I believe that's all. [19:38] Thank you :) [19:38] Gryphling is up [19:38] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Anuolf [19:38] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Gryphling [19:38] I'm typically in some manner of shifted state as well. Nice phrase. The strongest urge I've had recently is nipping at people who get too close, or if I'm in a crowd that I just want to be out of. I hold off on this urge until the person passes [19:38] Queue: Bearcat, Lenowill, NightStorm [19:39] then I'll either nip (or click) at the air. Generally my wings puff up or hunch when this occurs, so my shoulders rise with them and my head ducks (to get under the safety of the wings). [19:39] One friend has commented on me looking "scary" when this happens, so meh. I tend to constantly preen as well, which could be either a human thing or a gryphon thing really, [19:39] and involves just scratching at my face/neck/shoulders/arms or playing with my hair so it's not too weird an action. The major thing I suppress is a fairly constant urge to run on all fours [19:39] which is just not looked kindly on by the public, so I don't do it except when I'm alone in the apartment (and then, there's not enough room) or acting like a werewolf for Howl-O-Scream at Busch Gardens, [19:39] when I'm in costume and it's perfectly acceptable. Wanting to fly has become more common of an urge recently, and I repress that (because to not do so would be baaaaad obviously) and exercise my wings whenever I can. [19:39] Queue: Bearcat, Lenowill, NightStorm, SerpentineZebra [19:39] Especially in the shower, though fluttering in the spray is a wonderful thing. (Done, thanks for the opportunity) [19:40] Sure thing, thank you. [19:40] Bearcat is up [19:40] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Gryphling [19:40] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Bearcat [19:40] thanks [19:40] Queue: Lenowill, NightStorm, SerpentineZebra [19:40] * WolfFriend nods [19:42] * Anuolf (4229a5a6@WS239FFA-B3ED0CDA.mibbit.com) has left #STDC [19:42] * Buffalo_ is now known as Buffalo [19:43] * Anuolf (4229a5a6@WS239FFA-B3ED0CDA.mibbit.com) has joined #STDC [19:43] i don't know about "urges". I tend to carry a bit of an alien mindset, which is to say that my personal paradigm towards some things is different. i don't have a sense of body/sexual embarrasment or carry the same fears that most people around me do. As i tend to answer honestly about things i have to watch myself in social situations. [19:44] i don't shift, but i have acted in a more feline manner when startled and my "no, don't do that voice fails" My feline fight/flight reflex has been triggered a few times but i've never 'lost control' [19:45] people notice my felinity due to the subtle things i think, but i've not had much of a problem with it. Buffalo does have to remind me to put on clothes before i go out onto the porch to get wood or something. [19:46] * Bearcat passes the Talking Stick back to WolfFriend [19:46] Thank you, Bearcat :) [19:46] Next up is Lenowill [19:46] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Bearcat [19:46] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Lenowill [19:46] Queue: NightStorm, SerpentineZebra [19:46] I used to have starker, sharper m-shifts more often. When that happened, I'd mostly let it out in private, or alone in the woods near my parents' house, and that was exhilirating and fulfilling. (Still is, for that matter. ^_^) [19:47] These days I do lots of small vocalizations and gestures (growls, discreet nuzzlings, etc.) without anyone batting an eyelash at me. Except my mother, who knows I'm a were and thinks I'm a little crazy, but she's warming up to it too. [19:48] Most of my shifting (especially between animals--some of which is cameo shifting and some of which most likely isn't) is really fluid these days. Doing a lot of shamanic work and praying and the topic (I'm a Christian) has helped with that, I think. [19:48] So I usually don't feel over-compelled to "act out" animalistically in ways that would be detrimental to relationships with other people. [19:49] What more often happens is that I feel intuitively led or guided by the Holy Spirit to actually act a little more animal than I was (because I had been repressing it)--and would later realize the people around me were actually readier than I realized to cope with my being that way. [19:49] Which is always a plus. It's ended up helping my relationships overall because figuring out what I can and can't show people leads to greater honesty and trust, in some ways. [19:50] Done. :-) *nudges mic to WF* [19:50] Thanks :) [19:50] And next up is NightStorm [19:50] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Lenowill [19:50] * WolfFriend sets mode +v NightStorm [19:50] Queue: SerpentineZebra | Open discussion [19:50] OK...sorry if I don't make any sense I had beer or two soo [19:50] anyway [19:51] My perspective is a bit interesting, as an autist I don't have that perception of knowing what behaviors are correct and incorrect in public [19:52] so I end up doing "Therian behaviors" unwarely in public, also because of this I don't have any urges because I don't bother to hold back incorrect wolf behaviors... [19:53] now I don't bite, howl, growl, or posturizes in public all the damn time. I will growl, cock my head when I am in full shift I normally leave the area completely because OMGHUMANS! [19:55] * WindSeeker is now known as Windybrb [19:55] I don't need to hold back a lot, but not because I don't want too it's normally bacause It's too late. I've been watching myself more carefully so I don't something completely inappropriate. But normally the folks I hang around with don't give a flying fuck if I growl or gesture. As long I don't do somethng really asinine. I don't care [19:57] I stop giving a shit about what "humans" think when I do something, I constantly have to check myself with autistic behaviors and now I have to watch for therian ones. Sometimes it's too much work...so more or less I let my "urges:" manifest [19:57] saves me a lot of hassle and paranoia.. [19:57] anyway I'm gonna STFU now [19:57] Thank you NightStorm [19:57] Thank you for sharing, NightStorm :) [19:58] Last up is SerpentineZebra, and then we have open discussion [19:58] * WolfFriend sets mode -v NightStorm [19:58] * WolfFriend sets mode +v SerpentineZebra [19:58] Thank you [19:59] Well, I'm lucky in that I don't seem to get mental shifts in public, it's primarily phantom. But I'm pretty much in control of these... except when it comes to music. [20:00] If I go to a party or something, and music's playing, I feel my cobra phantom parts manifest, and kind of lose myself. I don't know that anyone would know the difference unless they were good at reading people, but I get to where I can't look AT people [20:01] I kind of look through them instead. It's LIKE I'm in a different state of mind than they are, but I wouldn't call that a therianthropic m-shift per se. [20:02] (sorry for the random caps) If no one else hears the music (say on my iPod) then I'll throw a little more sway in my walk, but as of yet, no one's really commented on it, not even Waldorf. [20:03] and in moments of emotion (like anger or sadness) then I'll perk up phantom ears more than I'll show it on my face, like a cat or dog would. [20:03] ok that's all I can think of. Thank you [20:03] Sure thing, thanks. [20:03] * SerpentineZebra hands the conch shell back to WF [20:04] :) We will be moving into open discussion now [20:04] * WolfFriend sets mode -v SerpentineZebra [20:04] * WolfFriend sets mode -m [20:04] Feel free to discuss now :) [20:04] So I was honestl [20:04] That was great thanks to everyone who said their peice [20:04] *Honest [20:04] We have 15 minutes until the next topic [20:05] oh goodie [20:05] * WolfFriend nods at NightStorm [20:05] So [20:05] I think that's an interseting point of view, since not all of us are autistic [20:05] Gryph avoided discussing her wing preenig thats the funnier stuff [20:05] what was the topic? ;p [20:05] lol [20:05] geek: First one, front page on weresource.org :P [20:05] (i came in late) [20:05] Lol, I wasn't aware that anyone could tell when I did that, so thanks GreenWolf XD [20:05] I'm actually autistic too, but since I don't have mental shifts, I declined to mention it as it was irrelevant to my point [20:05] Mostly I gave up on trying to catch stuff because it just comes [20:05] kinda like stimming [20:06] sorry you know me im annoyingly observent [20:06] True :D It comes in handy though [20:06] yup [20:06] * geek thinks people got used to me headtilting. unless my dog happens to do it around the same time [20:06] Actually whats kinda interesting [20:06] well, not public mental shifts anyway [20:06] No one ever commented on me headtilting [20:06] I didn't even know it was canine until about 4 or 5 years ago [20:06] heh [20:07] I curl my tail and click my talons together and stuff [20:07] when I do get phatom shifts sometimes my tail wags in almost like stim like matter, like how one would jiggle their leg XD [20:07] Headtilting is a common enough human emotive behavior though. [20:07] So you're highly unlikely to hear anyone balk at it. [20:07] but people can't tell, until I type it online [20:07] Ya [20:07] I probably wouldn't think anythong of head tilting [20:07] i also act mostly normal unless i'm sick. I once started *whining* at anyone who disturbed me when i have a flu [20:07] NightStorm: wolf, right? [20:07] I watch for people to do it, Lenowill [20:07] Yeah [20:07] NightStorm: ever foottapped while tailwagging? [20:07] Arctic [20:07] But I don't see it in people as much as I see it in myself :P [20:07] NightStorm: are you very young? [20:07] Yeah I do [20:07] I'm 22? [20:07] Lol as a contherian i dont feel anything as different and i wouldn't really know i have ticks if not for folks telling me and me comparing my self to others [20:08] I rock sometime and my ears swing back and forth [20:08] One of my nontherian friends (at least, I think he's nontherian) headtilts almost constantly as his way of saying, "Wha?" or "!!!" [20:08] * WolfFriend nods [20:08] And he's a very close friend, so I'm probably biased on that point. [20:08] It is human as well, yes. [20:08] I do that, and I do very much when I listen. [20:08] I rarely get phantom shifts... Usually I can just deepen my shifts. Music and alcohol usually help, but not alwas. [20:08] NightStorm: i thought only puppies waged. Does do it because it is a pedomorphic wolf trait. [20:08] *always. [20:08] But I have a very distinct headtilt that I do as well, it's a kind of jerk, and very pronounced [20:08] I don't *wag* my tail, but sometimes it's "twitched" when I've been surprised, by loud noises or otherwise [20:08] More so than just tipping your head to the side :p [20:08] My foot usually moves when I want to display my tail wagging [unless I have my tail on, then I just wiggle my butt around] [20:08] NightStorm: i mean "dogs do it.." [20:09] Bearcat: well, there's my theory that some wolf therians are kinda stuck in adolecence, since they socialise as people, not wolves [20:09] adult wolves still wag. Not often as ferociously as pups do, but they use tail-based body language quite a lot. [20:09] "twitch" as in that side to side thing cats do when they're waiting to pounce [20:09] Bearcat, adult wolves wag when they're intent on something [20:09] The tail wag might be pedomorphic I thought it was bio-psycho response to my natual stimm behaviors [20:09] and the damned 10th kingdom which i love but it showed all of my friends most of my ticks in the character Wolf got me a lot of questioning from my freinds who dint know i was a therian as well as my favorite nick name Wolf lol [20:09] Lenowill: I'm like that [20:09] no one seems to think much of my little noises that I make... Anyone else do stuff in public and no one notices? [20:09] and I mean, the people who don't know. [20:09] (I do) [20:09] (As in, I do stuff like you're describing) [20:10] Kinda like wolf vocalizations that I exibit instead of my normal human veberbal-stims [20:10] SherlawkDragon: people don't notice things that are just a little off normal [20:10] SD: headtilt, lots of little noises... [20:10] maybe they think it's just silliness, it's little high pitched "aww"s [20:10] And *nods at mori* [20:10] aand stuff [20:10] SD: yeah, I stare through people. [20:10] Anuolf: I do the same thing with my foot [20:10] only one person actually called me on the noise. dentist. [20:10] geek: could be. [20:10] Gryphling: really? [20:10] Dentist? hehehe [20:10] SerpentineZebra> I doubt they notice that [20:10] err, are aware of it [20:10] yep. "... are you making weird noises?" [20:10] I seem to make noises that are a blend of wolf-ish and raccoon-ish. [20:11] Bearcat: It's funny how a lot of my wolf behaviors over time bled into my autistics ones [20:11] I don't know, some people can tell when you're looking AT them and when you're looking THROUGH them [20:11] but I haven't met any of them [20:11] Bearcat: Yep. I used to volunteer at the local living museum, and the red wolves we have there are all adults. I've become very familiar with wolf behaviors thanks to them, so much so that I communictae with GreenWolf using them sometimes (he's my roomie) [20:11] Usually people who are attending closely to your body language. [20:11] they are aware of it when I stretch with my claws out, yawn with my tongue curled, or make little raccoon sounds [20:11] NightStorm: that would be interesting. I've read that non-human animals are kind of autistic anyhow. [20:11] One noise that was nicknamed the "Ani Early Warning System" sounds like a wolf's whine with a raccoon warning sound. [20:12] Serpent:Your eyes don't focus right, ir they notice that, they are paying attention. [20:12] :-) [20:12] Gryphling: ahh, interesting! I'm a feline. What do i know? [20:12] Anuolf, that's awesome XD [20:12] What kind of warning? :-) [20:12] well thanks to everyone and this has been great but im still avoiding HW thats late but i will deffinately try and make the next one [20:12] People have noticed before that when I shift, my usual friendly smile turns into a much less expressive piercing stare. [20:12] goodnight [20:12] Bearcat: Oh Templin said that..I don't know if I would agree with her though [20:12] night [20:12] Bearcat: Hey, I'm a gryphon, no relation to wolves whatsoever...just cuz you're not the species doesn't mean you can't learn :D [20:12] Night GreenWolf [20:12] Night Greenwolf [20:12] Later GreenWolf. Take care! And do well! =) [20:12] * GreenWolf (4400250d@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:13] By Greenwolf [20:13] G'night Greenwolf [20:13] It usually happens if I'm being tickled non-stop by my mate. [20:13] And are having the impulse to tenderize him. *nods* [20:13] * moonwolf (moonwolf@WS239FFA-D5AACD12.dyn.centurytel.net) Quit (Quit: moonwolf) [20:13] (or something along those lines?) [20:13] * Guest76 (Guest76@WS239FFA-233373A3.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) has joined #STDC [20:13] XD [20:13] i think the only other thing I do is the hip-swaying. It's probably because I don't have teh hourglass hips that some women do [20:13] oh hey MoonWolf [20:13] Hi Guest76, to change your name, use /nick [20:13] Final thoughts guys [20:13] SerpentineZebra: ever thought of taking up belly dancing? [20:13] * Guest76 (Guest76@WS239FFA-233373A3.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) Quit (Quit: Guest76) [20:13] didn't see you in here [20:14] BC: Actually, that's what I do :) [20:14] SerpentineZebra: nice! [20:14] * KarlyUnique (KarlyUniqu@WS239FFA-233373A3.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) has joined #STDC [20:14] I belly dance to get my shifts worked throug [20:14] hey, why don't the admins ever talk? [20:14] *through [20:14] SZ: lame as this question may sound, have you ever tried listening to traditional snakecharming musics before? [20:14] SherlawkDragon: they do sometimes ;p [20:14] SherlawkDragon: i brought that up last week. [20:14] SherlawkDragon: BC asked this last week [20:14] meh... [20:14] AND WE DID [20:14] XD [20:14] well two weeks ago [20:14] SherlawkDragon, I can talk, but not much :P [20:14] hmm... I may have to look for that, but usually I respond to bass sounds [20:15] SherlawkDragon: yeah, and now they won't shut up! :"P [20:15] I'm in a different mode when I'm doing this :P [20:15] *nods* [20:15] But I should give my thoughts more than I do, really :P [20:15] (in response to Cheese) [20:15] Was just curious about the nature of the sound. [20:15] SerpentineZebra> "brown note"? :o [20:15] SerpentineZebra: I also respond to bass sounds [20:15] * TerrorWolf sets mode +m [20:15] Thank you, if you have anything left to say, take it to PM [20:15] We will be doing the next topic now [20:16] The next topic is: [20:16] If you were given the opportunity to throw away your human life and live as your theriotype, would you? Considering all that you would lose from your human relationships and experience? This is assuming that becoming your theriotype means you are it fully, and not part human in any way. [20:16] Sherlawk is up first [20:16] * WolfFriend sets mode +v SherlawkDragon [20:16] oh! yay! [20:16] this is what I wrote: [20:16] Wow... this is a tough one, and I've asked it to myself many times... It sounds like something wonderful, like something that would make me very happy on the surface, but on the other paw, you really have to look at the flip side. [20:16] I AM a HUMAN, even though I identify as animal. I was born and raised with a human body in a human society, and it's not easy to give all that up for good, even if it does sound like fun. If I were a raccoon: yes, I would be able to forage for crabs at the shore, eat all sorts of new and interesting things all the time, climb trees and chase smaller animals all day, without having to worry about many predators because Raccoons are actual [20:16] However, were I to suddenly turn into a raccoon, all of my work, dreams, accomplishments, would all mean nothing. Raccoons don't have human friends, while I have alot and would be sad to lose them. Raccoons do not program, there will never be a Raccoon software developer, I would never be able to make a very possible dream a reality. Raccoons don't have a global society to try and improve, all they have is their own little forest where [20:17] I would be throwing away what I did in the past, what I have in the present, and my dreams for the future. I don't ever want to do that, I've got a human life to finish living. [20:17] Now, if I could somehow P-Shift, that would be different. The opportunity to physically be the raccoon I am inside without losing the human life I have? I would take it in an instant. Can I do that? Sadly, no, I've searched for a way to do so, but I've never found it (though perhaps I will when I'm older and wiser). In any case, I like being able to be human. I don't see my human life as a burden, nor am I spiteful to my therianthrop [20:17] In any case, that's all I have to say for now. [20:17] Did that cut off? or is my client separating correctly? [20:17] a bit [20:17] Queue: geek, Bearcat, Jarhyn, Kumiho, Lenowill, Anuolf [20:17] :P [20:17] You got cut off, ya [20:17] uh oh... [20:17] ok, loet me try again... [20:17] did it post my returns correctly? [20:17] " predators because Raccoons are actual..." [20:17] "without having to worry about many predators because Raccoons are actual" <--- cut off #1 [20:17] "is their own little forest where ..." [20:18] " nor am I spiteful to my therianthrop..." [20:18] yeah [20:18] Queue: geek, Bearcat, Jarhyn, Kumiho, Lenowill, Anuolf, Mori [20:18] ok [20:18] Wow... this is a tough one, and I've asked it to myself many times... It sounds like something wonderful, like something that would make me very happy on the surface, but on the other paw, you really have to look at the flip side. [20:18] I AM a HUMAN, even though I identify as animal. I was born and raised with a human body in a human society, and it's not easy to give all that up for good, even if it does sound like fun. [20:18] If I were a raccoon: yes, I would be able to forage for crabs at the shore, eat all sorts of new and interesting things all the time, climb trees and chase smaller animals all day, without having to worry about many predators because Raccoons are actually a very hard animal to prey on (they can kill a wolf if it attacks them alone) [20:18] However, were I to suddenly turn into a raccoon, all of my work, dreams, accomplishments, would all mean nothing. Raccoons don't have human friends, while I have alot and would be sad to lose them. Raccoons do not program, there will never be a Raccoon software developer, I would never be able to make a very possible dream a reality. Raccoons don't have a global society to try and improve, all they have is their own little forest where [20:18] * Windybrb is now known as WindSeeker [20:18] I would be throwing away what I did in the past, what I have in the present, and my dreams for the future. I don't ever want to do that, I've got a human life to finish living. [20:18] Now, if I could somehow P-Shift, that would be different. The opportunity to physically be the raccoon I am inside without losing the human life I have? I would take it in an instant. Can I do that? Sadly, no, I've searched for a way to do so, but I've never found it (though perhaps I will when I'm older and wiser). [20:18] In any case, I like being able to be human. I don't see my human life as a burden, nor am I spiteful to my therianthropy for making me feel this way, I don't see that as a burden either. [20:18] In any case, that's all I have to say for now. [20:18] Shit, I bet that was cut off there... >!< [20:18] ok [20:18] Raccoons do not program, there will never be a Raccoon software developer, I would never be able to make a very possible dream a reality. Raccoons don't have a global society to try and improve, all they have is their own little forest where the only they they can really affect is themselves. [20:19] anything else missing? [20:19] I think that's it [20:19] ok >!< [20:19] We'll allow people a moment to digest that [20:19] XD [20:20] Queue: geek, Bearcat, Jarhyn, Kumiho, Lenowill, Anuolf, Mori, WindSeeker, NightStorm [20:20] Ok? [20:20] Thank you, SherlawkDragon [20:20] Next up is geek [20:20] * WolfFriend sets mode -v SherlawkDragon [20:20] * WolfFriend sets mode +v geek [20:20] Queue: Bearcat, Jarhyn, Kumiho, Lenowill, Anuolf, Mori, WindSeeker, NightStorm, wolfpaws [20:20] Right, i'm gonna be a little cheeky here in a bit... [20:21] but first, i suspect my wolf side would probably end up either starving to death, or being mistaken for a dog, and adopted... so being a wolf seems... impractical [20:22] On the other hand, if i could give up my human life, and go (back?) to being an angelic type being, with or without the memories of being a human? i;d do it right away. [20:23] Sure, i'd miss technology, and computers, but who needs em when you have a culture where people actually give a shit about each other, and are mindful of being empathic. Oh, and i'd be able to work out their history and such [20:23] thats about it ;p [20:23] Thanks [20:24] Next up, Bearcat [20:24] * WolfFriend sets mode -v geek [20:24] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Bearcat [20:24] Queue: Jarhyn, Kumiho, Lenowill, Anuolf, Mori, WindSeeker, NightStorm, wolfpaws [20:26] Would i change hmm.. I think so, yes. I know that i would have the support of my friends and lovers. I would love to feel that body again as more than a phantom state. For once i would be able to look in the mirror with out a feeling of cognitive dissonance. [20:27] Queue: Jarhyn, Kumiho, Lenowill, Anuolf, Mori, WindSeeker, NightStorm, wolfpaws, KarlyUnique [20:27] I'm sure i would get much media attention wanted or not. I had an amusing dream about attaing my trueform (an unfinished sketch for reference http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d141/Jofrenegger/Bearcatsandorsketch.jpg) and being on the Jerry Springer show (god no, turn me back!) [20:28] i would likely alienate (har har) a lot of people though. Would i really need to fear being captured and taken to a lab somewhere? I donno. [20:29] However, with out experianceing the collective consiousness that i hunger for, it would be a bit shallow. I miss that so much. If i had the chance to go home? Never see Buffalo and Istas again? I donno. With apologies to them i would be tempted. I know they would understand. [20:30] bufalo just said "i would, yes." [20:30] * Bearcat passes the talking stick to WolfFriend. [20:30] Thank you, Bearcat. :) [20:30] Next up, Jarhyn [20:30] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Bearcat [20:30] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Jarhyn [20:30] not just no but hell no. some people had lives of higher or lower orders, but I'd as soon give up episodic memory, abstract thought, real love, and friendship as I would my genitals. [20:30] Queue: Kumiho, Lenowill, Anuolf, Mori, WindSeeker, NightStorm, wolfpaws, KarlyUnique [20:32] I don't think it's worth giving up the decision to become something able to create and interact on a higher level for fur, a tail, and claws. It's my curiosity about people that led me here. my lack of being human in a past life, I feel has given me a perspective few people get [20:32] so why would I give up that perspective? that beautiful thing that is BEING human, even if one's soul isn't? it's better to be human for me than any other non-therian human [20:33] I see the value of my gifts. I see the value of my ability to think, and reason, and learn. few people understand how truely awesome that is [20:33] besides, what good is being a cat if the brain isn't built to remember ever being human at all... or worse remembering it just enough to know what you sacrificed? [20:34] I remember what I was, just long enough of it to know that it was a hard and brutal life, though no worse or better than this one. pleasures of a headrub are a headrub away still. pleasures of a book are infinitely far when you can't read [20:35] I'd sooner die, to be honest. it's a great place to visit I'm sure, but I wouldn't want to live there again. [20:35] I'm done [20:35] Thank you. [20:35] Next up, Kumiho [20:35] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Jarhyn [20:35] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Kumiho [20:36] Queue: Lenowill, Anuolf, Mori, WindSeeker, NightStorm, wolfpaws, KarlyUnique [20:36] I have actually put a lot of thought into this question before this topic was brought up and I can safely say that, yes, I would give it all up in exchange for living the remainder of my life as a fox. [20:36] I would be giving up friendships and family; however, I feel that they all know me well enough for them to understand my choice and that I love them. I'm the black sheep of our family (ie: I'm not racist and I'm extremely liberal in every sense of the word). [20:36] The bottom line is that a family is like a puzzle and I'm the piece that you have to push REALLY hard to get to fit. I would be giving up all the things I've set up for my professional life; I want to be a teacher. [20:37] I'm okay with giving up that seeing as, as a fox, I would have no need for a job (even if it is a job that I would love doing). [20:37] I would also be giving up some of the advantages of being human, namely, higher order though on the level that humans have achieved. Because of my perspective on the existence of the soul, this does not bother me; but that's for a different discussion. [20:37] In terms of practicality, being a fox would be doable in my area as there are already a moderate number of them around. Lastly, I would be giving up time. I'm am currently 22 years old. Foxes live 3-5 years in the wild and up to 8 years in captivity. [20:38] Assuming an average of those numbers, it can be assumed that I would live about 4 or 5 years if I had lived my entire life as a fox. However, I have already lived about one fourth of my family's average lifespan (85 years). [20:38] That means that in trading in my physical existence as a human for an existence as a fox, I would be losing 60 years of life. It is my belief that quality, not quantity, is what makes a life worthwhile. [20:39] I can fit into society when I need to; that isn't a problem, and I enjoy my responsibilities as a human so I know it would be a decision made out of more than escapism and over-dramatic fantasies. Keeping that in mind, 60 human years is an even trade for 3 fox years. [20:39] That's all from me. [20:39] Thank you. [20:40] Next up, Lenowill [20:40] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Kumiho [20:40] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Lenowill [20:40] Queue:, Anuolf, Mori, WindSeeker, NightStorm, wolfpaws, KarlyUnique [20:40] Thankies. [20:40] My mate Eris and I discussed this topic at exhaustive length during the glory days of our relationship. We no longer consider ourselves likely candidates for husband and wife as humans, but have had a large body of shamanistic experiences in which we live together as a mated pair of wolves. [20:41] * Stealth (StealthSha@B76D0E6F.1622617C.5B1E2302.IP) has joined #STDC [20:41] The experiences started spontaneously, and our theories on what exactly they are would have to be left for a much longer discussion. [20:41] But, suffice it to say, the thought crossed our minds more than a little ... [20:41] "What if we could leave this behind and just live together with our cubs, as wolves, without a single human thought?" [20:42] Eris typically said, "I'd trade it all in in a heartbeat." There were times when I felt the same way. She's since changed her mind multiple times and so have I. [20:42] What I've come to realize is that, in the end, none of us are likely to ever know the answer to this question (as we ourselves would answer it at heart) unless we are faced with a situation in which we can clearly see that a transformation will in fact happen if we'll only agree and make that choice. [20:43] With that said, [20:43] I can see and respect both sides of the argument. If we were pure animal, we'd have no knowledge of what we'd given up, most likely, and would live in the moment. That has a beauty of its own. [20:44] For my own life, I tend to feel at this point like God has me here like this for a good purpose, and I trust him with that. If he ever wanted me to change into an animal for some purpose, I'd more than gladly volunteer, or at least I hope that I would. (Again, I don't know that for sure.) I don't think that's likely though because it would jeopardize or destroy a lot of important relationships in my life. [20:45] And I understand God to be love, in the end, so the welfare of the people around me would naturally be taken into consideration. And rightly so. [20:45] Done'd. :-) [20:45] Thank you :) [20:45] Next up, Anuolf [20:45] * WolfFriend sets mode -v Lenowill [20:45] * WolfFriend sets mode +v Anuolf [20:45] Queue: Mori, WindSeeker, NightStorm, wolfpaws, KarlyUnique [20:45] As most of you know, I suffer from species dysphoria. While I would miss the different abilities and such that comes with being a human, I don't think I would miss it terribly. I dream of the day where I can be what I see myself as. [20:45] Whoops... [20:46] .The best way I can put this, is imagine if you were transgendered, but imagine you were TG in a different time without the option of surgery and hormones and the ability to transition. [20:46] This is how I feel on a daily basis. It often becomes quite painful to deal with and will leave me in tears or major distress. It's also the root of a lot of my issues with depression. [20:46] I don't doubt that my earlier bouts of chronic depression and suicidal thoughts were once because of this, I just did not realize why, how, or what was causing such feelings at the time. [20:47]