Feb 08 19:20:47 * WolfFriend sets mode +m #stdc Feb 08 19:20:50 Welcome everyone Feb 08 19:21:08 This will remain moderated while I explain the rules Feb 08 19:21:33 (If you've been here last time you'll probably be familiar) Feb 08 19:21:49 1) If you have any questions, please consult myself, Pastedos, or TerrorWolf Feb 08 19:22:02 2) Please don't spam the channel with off-topic conversation; take it to PM if you must. Feb 08 19:22:23 3) When we introduce the topic at the start, we will be voicing/unvoicing participants so that they may give their thoughts on the topic at hand. Feb 08 19:22:52 After we've had several people voice their thoughts, we will open the channel up for open discussion. Feb 08 19:23:00 Any questions? Feb 08 19:23:03 * WolfFriend sets mode -m #stdc Feb 08 19:23:12 * Bearcat reads up Feb 08 19:23:25 should I try and grab other people in? Feb 08 19:23:38 If you want to invite people, feel free. Feb 08 19:23:43 if I can find them... heh... Feb 08 19:23:44 Others are welcome to join the discussion, certainly Feb 08 19:23:45 We like to have as many people here as possible. Feb 08 19:23:59 I'll just repost that list of infos... Feb 08 19:24:07 buffalo is coming in but she's not here at the moment. We're moving wood Feb 08 19:24:10 Oh, and I don'e really know a couple of the people here... Feb 08 19:24:21 You can ask about them in PM Feb 08 19:24:25 O Feb 08 19:24:32 I'd like to get this moving if possible :) Feb 08 19:24:36 * Bearcat looks at ~Pastedos and dares him to say something Feb 08 19:24:38 Anything else? Feb 08 19:24:51 :P Feb 08 19:24:52 No? Feb 08 19:24:53 Ok. Feb 08 19:24:57 * WolfFriend sets mode +m #stdc Feb 08 19:25:08 The first topic Feb 08 19:25:17 --> Buffalo (margaret@WS239FFA-C93D736A.static.blackfoot.net) has joined #stdc Feb 08 19:25:29 This topic is broad, so you can take it how you'd like. Feb 08 19:25:34 Therianthropy and religion (how do you reconcile the two, if at all?) Feb 08 19:25:50 Essentially, how does therianthropy factor into your belief system, if you bother at all? Feb 08 19:26:09 If you want to talk, PM me, Pastedos, or TerrorWolf and ask for voice Feb 08 19:26:33 We will then give voice in order of received requests Feb 08 19:26:38 * WolfFriend nods Feb 08 19:27:10 I will start off first, then. Feb 08 19:28:27 Personally, I am a Christian. For years, I felt like it was a problem for me that I also identified the way I did. I prayed about it quite a lot, and through that, I came to a conclusion. God made me who I am, and I shouldn't be ashamed of that. I think that it's helped me deepen my spiritual life as well, because I wasn't ashamed. Feb 08 19:29:57 Therianthropy in general, I think, gives me a unique perspective in the task of caring for the Earth, as God set us (as Christians) to do. It gives us a different drive and perspective to care for the Earth's life, since as human society tends to nowadays feel above or separate from it, that nature is something to conquer, it creates a desire to live with it and nurture it. Feb 08 19:30:13 That is where I am, and how the two intermingle with me. Feb 08 19:30:22 SherlawkDragon wanted to talk, so I'll let him in now. Feb 08 19:30:26 * WolfFriend gives voice to SherlawkDragon Feb 08 19:30:38 You ready? Feb 08 19:30:57 I seem to have tangled myself in a knot of words... Feb 08 19:30:58 heh Feb 08 19:31:03 Let me try... Feb 08 19:31:10 Queue: Bearcat Feb 08 19:31:21 Well... I'm a Liberal Deist, first of all, which isn't much of a religion at all, 'cause all that says is I believe in a non-intervening benevolent creator, even though I am a religious person in general. Feb 08 19:31:35 I find that, while I don't really factor my therianthropy into it, it kind of forces its way in, into my worship/practices when it can. Feb 08 19:32:39 Let us know when you are finished speaking Feb 08 19:33:04 and into the way I think of religious things, actually, I think it was the fact that I came into the Therian community that really got me to start looking around at religion, it's like, before I came in, I didn't even THINK of non-judeo-christian beliefs... Feb 08 19:33:30 I guess that's all I can think of... heh... we should make these forum topics... Feb 08 19:33:41 Ok, so you're done then? Feb 08 19:33:46 yes Feb 08 19:33:49 Ok Feb 08 19:33:52 * WolfFriend gives voice to Bearcat Feb 08 19:33:53 * Pastedos removes voice from SherlawkDragon Feb 08 19:33:57 thank you Feb 08 19:33:59 :) Feb 08 19:34:07 i'll try for brevity, as best i can Feb 08 19:34:32 this gets complicated as my therianthriopy is abnromal for therianthreoipy Feb 08 19:35:15 in my first vision of my 'wereside" and the life that i belive i lived as such, i also recieved a flood of feelings and memory of culture. Feb 08 19:37:01 queue: geek Feb 08 19:37:47 i belived then as i do now, that i am part of a collective consiousness, somewhat in a buddhist sense. I remember feelign the thoughts, sensations and feelings of those around me. I am not a deist, but i do think of this one-ness as a symbolic personification of the all-that-is. This is something that i refffer to as The Gray Furred One (gray being a mix of colors). Feb 08 19:37:53 --> J (J@WS239FFA-C67A325B.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #stdc Feb 08 19:38:44 It is what we called that connection. When we made offerings to it, we knew that we were really making offerings to the all-that-is, that we were part of that and that in the ultimate truth we were talking to ourselves. Feb 08 19:39:23 I have a nighly ritual which i do for the Gray Furred One which i would be happy to explain in the free-for-all talking if anyone is interested in it. Feb 08 19:40:37 Lately i have begun feeling a lot of anger and prejudice against Christians for thier general non-acceptance of just about everthing that i am. I don't like feeling this way and would appreciate the help of those christian therianthropes like Wolffriend here Feb 08 19:41:29 There are a lot more details but that's the general idea. Ask what you will when the times comes for that. Feb 08 19:41:40 *hands the talking stick to a mod* Feb 08 19:41:44 Thanks :) Feb 08 19:41:47 Ok, so Bearcat, you're all set for now? Feb 08 19:41:53 * WolfFriend gives voice to geek Feb 08 19:41:54 Next up is geek Feb 08 19:41:58 * WolfFriend removes voice from Bearcat Feb 08 19:41:59 Yup Feb 08 19:42:48 geek: You're up :) Feb 08 19:43:13 well, to start with, i'm unusual too- i have a religion i grew up with (pacifist saivite hinduism), and one i'm working on rediscovering (the wierd little gnostisim style faith i'm working on reconstructing) Feb 08 19:43:57 As far as my wolf side goes, religion is a non issue. wolf is a wolf, and in the framework of hinduism, transmigration of souls is a 'normal thing' Feb 08 19:45:07 with my angelic side though, belief in 'the lady' tends to be an essential part of who i am. (course for those who don't know- there seems to be belief in two deities - rather absentminded and petty creator. and the lady_ Feb 08 19:46:25 erf... where was i? right - for me there's no conflict at all since some of our deities do tend to be fallible (so yes, i am probably a wolfish angelish soul in a human body for a reason) , and i don't feel there's anything wrong from a religious POV Feb 08 19:46:30 thats all i think ^^ Feb 08 19:46:36 Thank you geek Feb 08 19:46:50 * Pastedos removes voice from geek Feb 08 19:47:06 I think that's it for now, and we'll open up for open discussion now Feb 08 19:47:13 * WolfFriend sets mode -m #stdc Feb 08 19:47:47 hmm? Feb 08 19:47:48 You can now discuss if you want, until the next topic, which will probably start on the hour Feb 08 19:47:54 Oh Feb 08 19:48:08 um, sorry, I had to step away for a second there... >!>;; Feb 08 19:48:26 Now is the time to ask questions or make additional comments Feb 08 19:48:27 anyway, I did have something else Feb 08 19:48:38 Er. Feb 08 19:49:13 --> Tobisaurus (meow@WS239FFA-81F74E49.cvx1-c.lee.dial.ntli.net) has joined #stdc Feb 08 19:49:23 Hello, Tobi. Feb 08 19:49:27 I wanted to point out how I notice how religion seems to NOT be an issue in the general community, nobody seems to be intolerant about it, and sometimes, people can be superfluous with it (like joining one of those "religions" that's supposed to be made for therianthropy) Feb 08 19:49:28 hey Tobisaurus Feb 08 19:49:35 meep Feb 08 19:49:56 SherlawkDragon: Therian Temple *snicker* Feb 08 19:50:12 eh... I'm thinking more like "Natures Way" Feb 08 19:50:16 and such Feb 08 19:50:37 SherlawkDragon: well, in part cause i think most religious conflicts would be internal- by the time you reconcile your faith with the idea that part of you is an animal, you're likely to think out of the religious box Feb 08 19:51:14 Well, my religious views conflict with most therians in that I don't think a soul can be specifically animal. Feb 08 19:51:16 Therian Temple I guess... though they're more of a Hyper-structured Coven... not a religion... I know most of the higher members state Satanism as their religion, and a few others are Pagans... Feb 08 19:51:36 has anyone here had problems with others in a faith based way for being a therianthrope? Feb 08 19:51:40 I am not religous, the end Feb 08 19:51:49 You know, speaking of TT, Fenrir might be neat to talk to if he were here, but he's never ever on... >!>;; Feb 08 19:51:50 for me, it took a while to accept i was a being that seemed right out of judeochristian culture Feb 08 19:51:58 Stealth> lol Feb 08 19:52:00 I'm spiritual. Feb 08 19:52:13 Bearcat: I have not disclosed anything publicly to people outside of the community Feb 08 19:52:14 SherlawkDragon: which satanism? Feb 08 19:52:55 I've only had two people (right-wing Christian) say that therianthropy is impossible; the reason they gave:because only humans have souls. Other than that, I haven't run into any kind of religiously based problems. Feb 08 19:53:16 my belief goes as far as my statement towards enery manipulation, which states how I control energy in my body and my surounding environment Feb 08 19:53:17 Well. Feb 08 19:53:35 Bearcat> never had to confront anyone over it. My group of friends isn't religious like me, and the ones who are are atheists... heh... But I did go through this one thing where I was trying to warm a Evangelist-Christian to the concept... Feb 08 19:53:43 Bearcat> Church of Satan Feb 08 19:53:46 Hedonist Feb 08 19:53:58 lots of things have souls Feb 08 19:54:00 I don't think I know any Christian-Satanists Feb 08 19:54:10 I think that soul based therianthropy is impossible... but that's me, and your religious views may differ. Feb 08 19:54:15 do fish have souls? Feb 08 19:54:23 Stealth> yes. Feb 08 19:54:29 so do rocks. Feb 08 19:54:31 SherlawkDragon: ahh ok Feb 08 19:54:34 Stealth: why not? Feb 08 19:54:35 do souls require a memory, because fish have a 3 second memory Feb 08 19:54:35 lol Feb 08 19:54:50 I'd like to see a were-rock... Feb 08 19:54:53 well most people seem to think souls transend reality as we know it Feb 08 19:54:56 he'd be rockin... Feb 08 19:54:59 thus it needs a memory of self Feb 08 19:55:00 Stealth: everything has history, not everything can apply it Feb 08 19:55:04 I'd Roll that Rock.... Feb 08 19:55:04 Stealth: When a person has a memory impediment, does that mean the soul then has left? Feb 08 19:55:05 Kumiho / Stealth : in hindu philosohpy everything has a soul Feb 08 19:55:08 I don't believe souls require a memory Feb 08 19:55:13 (back on topic) Feb 08 19:55:13 I have my own reasoning for this Feb 08 19:55:14 SherlawkDragon: well there is LEvay satanism and there is theological satanism where they belive that satan is a real god to worship. Feb 08 19:55:19 Pastedos, possable Feb 08 19:55:30 and maybe a rock won't have memories cause it lacks the abilty to accept input Feb 08 19:55:30 sure it is Feb 08 19:55:31 when someone is brain dead, do they have a soul still? Feb 08 19:55:41 they have no memory or brain function Feb 08 19:55:44 mmm Feb 08 19:55:49 Stealth: depends on the nature of the soul Feb 08 19:55:50 neither does a rock Feb 08 19:55:58 Bearcat> yeah, that's what I meant by Christian-Satanism, they believe in the bible and worship its anti-god Feb 08 19:56:00 I can state that it has energy Feb 08 19:56:08 everything has energy Feb 08 19:56:09 Stealth: goldfish don't have a 3 second memory, that's a myth :P Feb 08 19:56:10 Stealth: or maybe the soul that was the living person isn't around, but there is something there Feb 08 19:56:23 The nature of the soul.....that's a HUGE topic in philosophy.....discussion on that could go for hours. Feb 08 19:56:26 I believe energy exists Feb 08 19:56:29 SherlawkDragon: ahh. Feb 08 19:56:32 There was an interesting Idea on ShadowsDen... Feb 08 19:56:32 Kumiho has the truth :P Feb 08 19:56:33 and I state this scientificly Feb 08 19:57:09 Kumiho: i'd strike your "hours" and replace it with "eons" Feb 08 19:57:14 That perhaps therianthropy occurs when an animal dies, and a very yound child comes across the place where it released its energy, and absorbs it... Feb 08 19:57:14 if you look on an atomic level, then the motion of the electrons in everythings atoms, the kenetic energy is there Feb 08 19:57:20 I agree, Bearcat. Feb 08 19:57:44 http://forums.shadowsden.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=242&sid=c367f8d09686ac7eea397d42ede69e0c Feb 08 19:57:47 that one Feb 08 19:58:01 Just a note: We will be starting our second topic in a bit under two minutes Feb 08 19:58:28 heh Feb 08 19:58:29 Stealth> what kind of religious beliefs would you have? Feb 08 19:58:36 *do Feb 08 19:58:36 I wouldnt Feb 08 19:58:38 not would... Feb 08 19:58:38 heh Feb 08 19:58:39 I dont Feb 08 19:58:58 thats like asking why I exist Feb 08 19:59:03 why do I believe I exist Feb 08 19:59:04 so... you're a... oh... damn, I forgot the word... Feb 08 19:59:05 heh Feb 08 19:59:21 Stealth> as Descartes would say: I think, therefore, I am Feb 08 19:59:40 religion I dislike Feb 08 19:59:40 because the one thing anyone can know is that they exist to doubt Feb 08 19:59:51 its always people who cant get over their parents Feb 08 20:00:01 so they look to guidance of some other person they cant see Feb 08 20:00:05 Agnostic Feb 08 20:00:09 * Pastedos sets mode +m #stdc Feb 08 20:00:27 Ok, thank you... we are going to start our next question now Feb 08 20:00:48 You may continue your discussions in pms Feb 08 20:00:56 or in the next open session Feb 08 20:01:01 The next question is: Feb 08 20:01:11 "If therianthropy was a mainstream spiritual tenet, something that would be mentioned in a religion class for instance, what would happen to us, as a community? As individuals? Would life be easier, knowing that people would have at least a basic understanding or acceptance of what it is? Or would it be more difficult because people could see it as a type of spiritual "fad"?" Feb 08 20:01:46 If you would like to talk about this topic, please message one of the admins: Myself, TerrorWolf, or WolfFriend, and we will place you in the queue Feb 08 20:02:40 * Pastedos gives voice to Bearcat Feb 08 20:02:51 Kumiho is next Feb 08 20:02:55 Bearcat, you are on deck Feb 08 20:03:57 oh! Feb 08 20:04:12 that's not what "on deck" means Feb 08 20:04:19 sorry Feb 08 20:04:31 i think that would not be a good thing. Feb 08 20:04:47 Therianthropy is not a religion. It is what we are. Feb 08 20:05:08 --> Amourosa (81db41bc@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Feb 08 20:05:18 If i am Christian i can convert to judism or become a Feb 08 20:05:20 usl Feb 08 20:05:23 muslim Feb 08 20:05:41 i can not convert from being a therianthrope. I can suppress it but that't it Feb 08 20:05:49 --> watchageek (kvirc@WS239FFA-C1C91D0.delta16.maxonline.com.sg) has joined #stdc Feb 08 20:06:19 if thereianthropy were a generally known phenominon we might get somemore information. Feb 08 20:06:54 i would love to hook a shifter (i'm not one) to an bio-feed back machine or an mri and see what is happening to our brains. Feb 08 20:07:08 think of the questions we could answer! Feb 08 20:08:16 Ok Bearcat, you have a minute left Feb 08 20:08:20 as far as the general public, yeah it'd be nice not to be quiet about it, (for me it's more like a Don't ask/don't tell) but i don't mew and licks my paws at the office anyhow, so who cares? Feb 08 20:08:35 * Bearcat pokes the next person with the talking stick Feb 08 20:08:44 Ok, thank you Bearcat Feb 08 20:08:51 *purrs* Feb 08 20:08:58 * Pastedos removes voice from Bearcat Feb 08 20:09:07 Next will be Kumiho Feb 08 20:09:15 then the queue is: Feb 08 20:09:37 Stealth, Jarhyn, NullAshton, Velox Feb 08 20:09:46 * Pastedos gives voice to Kumiho Feb 08 20:09:51 Thanks, if this cuts off, let me know. Feb 08 20:09:57 I think there would be about the same ratio of delusional RPers (not saying that all RPers are delusional) as we do now. There might be a temporary jump in the number of therians:"therians" as a result of widespread awareness but I think the "fad" effect would settle after a while. No matter what belief examined, there will always be people who jump on the bandwagon. Feb 08 20:10:08 Acceptance of therianthropy as a valid belief would be a lot more common if it became a mainstream spiritual tenet but so would rejection of the concept; such is the price of awareness. Feb 08 20:10:15 As with any belief that differs from their own, right-wing religious conservatives will likely view this belief as grade-A bull-pucky; that's no different from many other more liberally-minded beliefs or paths. Feb 08 20:11:06 I think that's all. Thanks. Feb 08 20:11:31 Thanks Feb 08 20:11:43 * WolfFriend gives voice to Stealth Feb 08 20:11:47 * WolfFriend removes voice from Kumiho Feb 08 20:11:56 Ok then Feb 08 20:11:58 <-- geek has quit (Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net) Feb 08 20:12:18 so one, we are therians, therianthropes Feb 08 20:12:25 which sounds like lycanthropes Feb 08 20:12:31 and thats what everyone would think we are Feb 08 20:12:43 and watch how we go back to the 16th century Feb 08 20:13:00 <-- harley has quit (Quit: Hev dons his wizzard robe and cap.) Feb 08 20:13:08 to those that wouldnt want to worry towards killing the others would want to brain test us like bearcat stated Feb 08 20:13:13 Queue: Jarhyn, NullAshton, Velox Feb 08 20:13:19 I dont know about him but I am not a test subject Feb 08 20:13:52 and its an easy statement to stay that we would get alot of fan boys Feb 08 20:13:57 we would even get movies about us Feb 08 20:14:47 and with all that more and more annoyances enter this chat room and all of us who stay as a community would have to hide ourselves just as we do now Feb 08 20:14:52 that is all Feb 08 20:15:12 Stealth: finished? Feb 08 20:15:17 yes Feb 08 20:15:24 ok, thank you Stealth Feb 08 20:15:29 * Pastedos removes voice from Stealth Feb 08 20:15:41 Next to speak is Jarhyn Feb 08 20:15:44 queue: Feb 08 20:15:56 Jarhyn, NullAshton, Velox, (SherlawkDragon) Feb 08 20:16:39 * WolfFriend gives voice to Jarhyn Feb 08 20:16:42 I'd say that religion AND therianthropy are things that people need to come to through their own fear and trembling. There can be education, and discussion, but widespread stratification of beliefs is exactly what causes problems between people today on a religious basis. I see it every day when helping fight ignorance in Iraq. Feb 08 20:17:45 I'd say we've all seen posers and confused individuals come in through the years because they want so badly to believe anything, they find us and then some massive cultural structure that claims to have answers and it sets them back Feb 08 20:19:40 but rather than figuring out what they believe for themselves, SOMEONE tells them what they "SHOULD" believe, and many even search for someone telling them what they "SHOULD" believe. THAT'S the grade-a horse pucky Feb 08 20:20:23 if people want to find us, there are more than enough resources for as such, and probably too many as is Feb 08 20:20:32 that's all really Feb 08 20:20:38 Thank you Jarhyn Feb 08 20:20:43 * Pastedos removes voice from Jarhyn Feb 08 20:20:51 * Pastedos gives voice to NullAshton Feb 08 20:20:57 NullAshton is next Feb 08 20:20:59 queue: Feb 08 20:21:07 Velox, (SherlawkDragon) Feb 08 20:21:40 * NullAshton coughs. Is here. Feb 08 20:22:12 Anyway. Uh. Actually I was just wondering about a commonly held belief of therians, that it's something that has to be from birth only. Feb 08 20:23:09 Hard to word this so I don't feel like I'm being offensive or anything.... but could it be possible to become a therian after birth? People have their personalities and ideals change over time due to events and such. Feb 08 20:23:57 Not people who thought that therianism sounds cool and they want to join, but people who in the course of their life changed their personalities and views such that it fits that of a therian, naturally? Feb 08 20:25:42 I really just wanted to throw that out there, and I don't really have much more to say on that right now. Feb 08 20:26:23 ok Null, if you could just sum up any last thoughts? You have one minute left Feb 08 20:27:50 That's pretty much it. I'm not good with this kind of discussion. x.x Feb 08 20:27:53 that's time Feb 08 20:27:59 Ok, thank you NullAshton Feb 08 20:28:04 Next is Velox Feb 08 20:28:08 then SherlawkDragon Feb 08 20:28:16 * Pastedos gives voice to Velox Feb 08 20:28:23 * Pastedos removes voice from NullAshton Feb 08 20:28:30 Then we will be opening up the discussion Feb 08 20:28:59 If anyone has read the comic TheriThere, it sort of mentions the possibility of this kind of recognition, although they focus on what would happen if it came in the form of a book. Feb 08 20:29:57 Although they are completely completely different things, I like to draw parallels between the gay community and the therianthropy community, mostly for this kind of topic Feb 08 20:30:55 It's usually assumed that it's something you're born with, something that isn't necessarily bad, and something that people may have a difficult time accepting from people they didn't know were like that Feb 08 20:31:41 Before the whole gay pride thing happened, being homosexual was baaaaad, and if you were gay, you got no respect. Now people are becoming more accepting of that Feb 08 20:32:26 I think that if we got the same kind of recognition, although I'm not saying go out and brag about it, it would be easier for each of us, individually, to "come out of the closet" as it were Feb 08 20:32:50 and yes, we would get many people who just thought it was a fad, look at the whole "metrosexual" phenomena Feb 08 20:33:22 Ok Velox, you have one minute remaining :) Feb 08 20:33:22 but to us, it's a trait that we have, and there's not much denying it, whether it's spiritual, mental, or whatever. Feb 08 20:33:59 So, even with all of the posers and people of negative opinion, I think it could possibly strengthen our bonds as a community Feb 08 20:34:05 I'm done :) Feb 08 20:34:09 Thank you Velox Feb 08 20:34:19 Gladly Feb 08 20:34:24 Finally, we have SherlawkDragon, who wanted me to also share this link Feb 08 20:34:25 http://therithere.comicgenesis.com/d/20060703.html Feb 08 20:34:30 * Pastedos gives voice to SherlawkDragon Feb 08 20:34:34 * Pastedos removes voice from Velox Feb 08 20:34:50 Immediately following which we will be opening up the discussion Feb 08 20:35:01 Ok, before I say anything else: this topic reminds me of Werelist, and the fantasy that the borglike collective there seems to have that Therianthropy will one day be commonplace and well known. I doubt this will ever be the case, I think the most that will ever come of it is it be in a section of a psychology (possibly occult) book, as it is interesting from a psychological standpoint. There aren't enough of us, and it's not uniform eno Feb 08 20:35:01 Now, if it were well known and all that, I would guess it would be easier for individuals to come out about it, as there would be some pre-setup framework for people to understand them. Now, the community? Well... it might be wrecked by the publicity and well-known-ness, as we couldn't hide our private ideas and organize things like howls without nontherians bugging us... we might even become like Furries, where people troll and mock us, Feb 08 20:35:04 Here's another thought you guys have made me think about this: In the community, I see alot of people who are looking for answer the wrong way: from other people. While input is not bad, people need to understand that you CANNOT get your answers, especially in these Spiritual/Personal matters, from others, no matter how wise. ShadowMyst talks about this constantly. Feb 08 20:35:08 Anyone lose any of that? Feb 08 20:35:10 XD Feb 08 20:35:23 Sherlawk: I had some cut off: Feb 08 20:35:25 "us, and it's not uniform eno"... Feb 08 20:35:32 ack! Feb 08 20:35:38 as well as " we might even become like Furries, where people troll and mock us," Feb 08 20:35:40 ok, let me try breaking it up a little more Feb 08 20:35:43 ok Feb 08 20:35:51 We appreciate you being ready Feb 08 20:35:59 Ok, before I say anything else: this topic reminds me of Werelist, and the fantasy that the borglike collective there seems to have that Therianthropy will one day be commonplace and well known. Feb 08 20:35:59 I doubt this will ever be the case, I think the most that will ever come of it is it be in a section of a psychology (possibly occult) book, as it is interesting from a psychological standpoint. Feb 08 20:35:59 There aren't enough of us, and it's not uniform enough. (that's a good thing, being homogeneous) Feb 08 20:36:20 Now, if it were well known and all that, I would guess it would be easier for individuals to come out about it, as there would be some pre-setup framework for people to understand them. Feb 08 20:36:20 Now, the community? Well... it might be wrecked by the publicity and well-known-ness, as we couldn't hide our private ideas and organize things like howls without nontherians bugging us... Feb 08 20:36:20 we might even become like Furries, where people troll and mock us, and spotlight only our most outrageous and demented members (and, let's face it, we have some who are borderline clinically insane). That would be annoying. Feb 08 20:36:41 Here's another thought you guys have made me think about this: In the community, I see alot of people who are looking for answer the wrong way: from other people. Feb 08 20:36:42 While input is not bad, people need to understand that you CANNOT get your answers, especially in these Spiritual/Personal matters, from others, no matter how wise they are. ShadowMyst talks about this constantly. Feb 08 20:36:43 Ok Feb 08 20:36:45 that's it Feb 08 20:36:55 on with the discussion! ^. .^ Feb 08 20:37:03 Ok I will give you all a moment to read that, and then we will be opening the discussion Feb 08 20:37:12 Thanks, Sherlawk Feb 08 20:37:23 my pleasure >. .O Feb 08 20:37:34 Discussion will be open for 10-15 minutes, and then we will have our final topic Feb 08 20:37:51 * Pastedos sets mode -m #stdc Feb 08 20:38:06 * SherlawkDragon 's scales perk up in discussions ^. .^ Feb 08 20:38:10 so... Feb 08 20:38:12 Discussion is now open Feb 08 20:38:18 people already troll and mock us, and the modern psychological community is already in the know. we aren't the back hidden corner of the internet. the vast majority of outsiders with any education and/or experience think quite rightly that we're a little wierd but otherwise normal. Feb 08 20:38:20 NullAshton said something Feb 08 20:38:27 Yes. Feb 08 20:39:05 I would like to say that homogeny isn't necessarily a good/bad thing. I do think that at this point, because we still have little in ways of answers and hard facts, differing opinions are a good thing. And it should still be easy to pick out those who are poseurs, so it wouldn't be automatically accepitng of those by talkinga bout non-common beliefs about therianthropy. Feb 08 20:39:16 Jarhyn, that is true. Feb 08 20:39:18 Jarhyn> yeah, some people know, but we're not in psychology textbooks. At least, not the moderate therians Feb 08 20:39:36 Though there aren't many papers about us and there is no academic interest on us, yet (or very little) Feb 08 20:39:39 even those without any education or experience just lump us in the general "wierd" that they view furry as. Feb 08 20:39:50 mm Feb 08 20:40:04 * SherlawkDragon is still +v Feb 08 20:40:09 * WolfFriend removes voice from SherlawkDragon Feb 08 20:40:11 :) Feb 08 20:40:12 no papers, no academic interest. the modern psychological community batches us in "schitzotypal: other" Feb 08 20:40:13 heh Feb 08 20:40:22 The way i pick out a poser is if they are happpy about it. Not accepting, but happy. Personally, i suffered with my therianthropy. I'd venture to say that most of us have. Feeling different and working to figure it all out. Feb 08 20:40:23 Ya, Jarhyn. Feb 08 20:40:38 Jarhyn> but that is something I do expect may change Feb 08 20:41:02 That is one measuring stick, Bearcat. I wouldn't say, though, if they are happy *now* but if they were always happy when they knew. Feb 08 20:41:04 Bearcat, have you confused Therianthrope with Goth? Feb 08 20:41:05 Posers also talk about biting and transferring therianthropy, too Feb 08 20:41:06 Or even when they don't know. Feb 08 20:41:07 I don't really think I was 'born' being a therian, myself. Feb 08 20:41:21 --> Okshaltan (62e78040@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Feb 08 20:41:23 Buffalo: quiet you german! Go sack Rome or something! Feb 08 20:41:29 NEIN!!! Feb 08 20:41:30 I do believe most all of us went through a bit of suffering and mental anguish when it came to trying to figure out themselves Feb 08 20:41:30 I doubt it. maybe there may be a study by some shrink who thinks it's an interresting set of beliefs; most think quite rightly that it's harmless, and very seperated from clinical lyacnthropy Feb 08 20:41:37 So you guys know ahead of time, we will be starting our final topic and closing open discussion at 8:50 Eastern time (8 minutes) Feb 08 20:41:40 As well as fitting into general society Feb 08 20:41:50 I will provide a reminder 1 minute before Feb 08 20:41:50 Hehe, hello, Okshaltan Feb 08 20:41:56 hello Okshaltan Feb 08 20:41:58 I understand my therianthropy as basically this: a human body with a wolf (or primarily wolf) soul, therefore, therianthropy would have to be a permanent condition, life-long Feb 08 20:42:05 WolfFriend: Everyone goes through anguish and suffering when they really try to figure out what they really believe Feb 08 20:42:06 hey Feb 08 20:42:08 WolfFriend> I think we have just the right balence: We are homogeneous enough that people have things that are very contrastive and insightful, while we are uniform enough to have something in common. Feb 08 20:42:16 mmhmm Feb 08 20:42:27 SherlawkDragon: well said Feb 08 20:42:33 Some people try to figure out what they really believe after experiencing the anguish Feb 08 20:42:47 homogeneous means uniform, I believe Feb 08 20:42:48 Jarhyn, that is true. But for us, we weren't searching for a something to be, we were searching for what we were. Feb 08 20:42:54 SherlawkDragon: "a core part of myself is a non-human animal" that we all have in common Feb 08 20:42:57 It's just that as I grew up, certain of my personality traits just kind of meshed with dragons, I guess. Which grew to a sort of an obession, and growing to wanting to be a dragon. As well as similar things to what most therians feel, like shifts I guess. Feb 08 20:43:26 * WolfFriend nods Feb 08 20:43:37 NullAshton: perhaps that could be an "awakening?" Feb 08 20:43:41 Bearcat> I wouldn't say I "suffered" that much by it, I did have problems and things, but I attribute most of them to my own immaturity at the time. I actually find therianthropy an "abnormality that can be fun" right now. Feb 08 20:43:52 in the end I don't see the difference. either way it's chiseling out an understanding of who you are and an understanding of (god) Feb 08 20:43:53 folks who chooses the topic and how do we submit them and why is TerrorWold so damned quiet?! Feb 08 20:43:54 * NullAshton shrugs. Feb 08 20:44:02 Right, Jarhyn. Feb 08 20:44:06 and how you relate to eachother. morality IS who you are. Feb 08 20:44:07 Bearcat> yeah, but that's a pretty big in-common! Feb 08 20:44:17 Bearcat, I don't know why he's quiet, but you can make suggestions in the forums. :) Feb 08 20:44:21 You do have an account, by the way :P Feb 08 20:44:27 Amourosa, maybe. But then again, I used to act completely different when I was younger. It's simply... confusing if you say that I was this from birth. Feb 08 20:44:30 SherlawkDragon: but that is basicly the definiton. Feb 08 20:44:31 I have a thread there for that purpose. Feb 08 20:44:35 * Velox was the only one who submitted suggestions Feb 08 20:44:41 ~WolfFriend: oh. Where? Feb 08 20:44:45 www.weresource.org Feb 08 20:44:52 Hi Bearcat, the topics are submitted to us prior to the evening on our forums. If you do not or cannot have an account alternate accomodations will be made Feb 08 20:44:57 Yup Feb 08 20:45:21 So we will now be looking for topics for the next meeting starting tonight Feb 08 20:45:45 Bearcat> You can do that on the Weresource Forums. TerrorWolf is busy having it on with his GF: she's wearing a little red riding hood costume, and he's in a wolf suit. Feb 08 20:45:56 :o Feb 08 20:46:02 NullAshton: I know how you feel. We don't know what really causes therianthropy. Most people act different now than when they were younger, though. That's part of aging and growing up. Some people have traumatic experiences that change them significantly, but not fundamentally Feb 08 20:46:05 :) Feb 08 20:46:05 uhm, please not in this channel, Sherlawk Feb 08 20:46:07 Sherlawk, try to keep this place age-appropriate Feb 08 20:46:18 SherlawkDragon: cool! Feb 08 20:46:30 and it's things like that that I like staying in the hidden shadows of our relatively unknown community. Feb 08 20:46:32 hee hee Feb 08 20:46:33 but that was Feb 08 20:46:34 *facepalm* Feb 08 20:46:43 ~WolfFriend: yeah, buffalo gets all offended :"P Feb 08 20:46:44 Pastedos> it was an example, see? Feb 08 20:46:45 hee hee Feb 08 20:46:48 Sorry, Bearcat. ;) Feb 08 20:46:59 We have about 3 minutes left for open discussion... it will be reopened following our final topic Feb 08 20:46:59 Amourosa, but still. It's not really something I was at 'birth', however. Feb 08 20:46:59 This is a serious discussion channel, though. That's a bit off topic. Feb 08 20:47:04 ~WolfFriend: she's such a prude you know :"P Feb 08 20:47:08 mmhmm :P Feb 08 20:47:46 There may have been a few key parts of myself that were present at birth. But it's not exactly a divine judgement from someone declaring, 'This person will be a dragon therian!' when I was born. Feb 08 20:48:02 NullAshton: might be, for all we know Feb 08 20:48:03 Yeah, these should be Forum Topics... heh Feb 08 20:48:23 Sherlawk: Just as good in here. People can start a topic in the forums if they'd like. :P Feb 08 20:48:26 NullAshton: you're probably just going to have to do some "soul-searching" Feb 08 20:48:38 and Amourosa> saying things like "that's right!" and "well said!" to me will get you a set of raccoon teeth marks Feb 08 20:48:41 There is one minute remaining in the Open Discussion period. Please finish any last thoughts. After I close discussion, you may continue in pms Feb 08 20:49:04 NullAshton, it may not be a divine judgement, or it may be. Of course people will say that children are very maleable at birth, but there are also no doubt inherent traits Feb 08 20:49:05 lol Feb 08 20:49:06 Or just go to #therian or #weresource to talk about it maybe, on the same network? Feb 08 20:49:23 Later Feb 08 20:49:24 Amourosa> people elsewhere occasionally learn that the hard way Feb 08 20:49:26 hee hee Feb 08 20:49:27 15 seconds! Feb 08 20:49:32 SherlawkDragon: kinda makes me want to say it Feb 08 20:49:35 :) Feb 08 20:49:36 5 seconds :P Feb 08 20:49:44 * Pastedos sets mode +m #stdc Feb 08 20:49:57 Ok, so that will close our second Open Discussion Feb 08 20:50:06 For our final topic tonight: Feb 08 20:50:26 "Although shamanism involving taking on the appearance/spiritual capacities of animals has been around for millenia, therianthropy is somewhat different. Is it just a resurfacing of shamanism thanks to the anonymity of the Internet (and, hence, the freedom to discuss such strange topics like on AHWW), or is it something new?" Feb 08 20:50:47 If you would like to talk about it, please pm one of the three admins Feb 08 20:51:03 Myself, Terrorwolf, or WolfFriend Feb 08 20:51:42 Okay, Buffalo is first Feb 08 20:51:47 * Pastedos gives voice to Buffalo Feb 08 20:51:57 I suspect therianthropy has always been around. Feb 08 20:52:03 I have no proof of course. Feb 08 20:52:19 afaik shamanism revolves around talking to spirits Feb 08 20:52:30 although animal beliefs can be related. Feb 08 20:52:34 That is all. Feb 08 20:52:48 Thanks Buffalo. :) Feb 08 20:53:01 * WolfFriend gives voice to Kumiho Feb 08 20:53:06 * WolfFriend removes voice from Buffalo Feb 08 20:53:17 Thanks. I think shamanism, while sharing many characteristics with therianthropy, is distinctly different. Feb 08 20:53:22 queue: Bearcat Feb 08 20:53:25 I believe that souls, in essence, take the form of their "prefferred state" or spiritual self-image, and are formless in essence; this is not to be misconstrued as a choice though. Just as love is often not chosen, a soul's form is not chosen in my views. It's easiest for me to use myself as an example. Feb 08 20:53:31 I believe that in some past life I lived as a fox. Something about that mentality, form, and instinctual set resonated with my soul in such a way as for my soul to take on that form and carry it over to this lifetime. Feb 08 20:53:38 This "prefferred state" connection or resonnace is more than just a love for the animal or a fascination for it; it is a deep, resonating connection between the very essence of the animal, it's very being, and the soul. Feb 08 20:53:47 This sounds much like shamanism on a surface level and I want to make the differences in my beliefs clear. In shamanism, a person takes on the properties/traits of an animal that he/she is not, whether temporary or for the durration of the life of the pysical being. Feb 08 20:53:54 In the case of therianthropy, the soul becomes the animal spiritually and carries this state of being over to other lifetimes. Or, at risk of oversimplifying my view, shamanism is like a human wearing an animal mask while therianthropy is like an animal wearing a human mask. Feb 08 20:55:01 I don't see therianthropy as being something new. I just see it as being better defined and categorized than in previous times. Feb 08 20:55:11 Okay, I think I'm done :) Thanks. Feb 08 20:55:17 Thank you Kumiho Feb 08 20:55:22 * Pastedos removes voice from Kumiho Feb 08 20:55:26 Next is Bearcat Feb 08 20:55:32 <-- watchageek has quit (Ping timeout) Feb 08 20:55:32 * Pastedos gives voice to Bearcat Feb 08 20:55:40 thanks Feb 08 20:55:49