Jan 25 19:12:04 * TerrorWolf sets mode +m #stdc Jan 25 19:12:17 Anuolf: I think you would like some of these topics :-P Jan 25 19:12:31 Sure Jan 25 19:12:31 Anyways the channel will be moderated while we explain the rules real quick Jan 25 19:12:45 1) If you have any questions please ask myself, Pastedos, or WolfFriend Jan 25 19:12:47 --> lelizabeth (4ad2633d@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Jan 25 19:13:07 2) Please do not spam the channel with off-topic stuff -- Take it to PM Jan 25 19:13:16 hello lelizabeth Jan 25 19:13:42 3) When we introduce the topic at the start, we will be voicing/unvoicing participants so they may give cursorary discussions on the topic Jan 25 19:13:58 If you would like to speak, please PM myself, pastedos, or wolffriend and we will voice you so you may say your part Jan 25 19:14:08 After we have detailed the conversation enough, it iwll be open for a full discussion Jan 25 19:14:21 The reason we do the cursoary is so that any sub-topics of that topic can be raised, and addressed Jan 25 19:14:32 Does anyone havea ny questions? Jan 25 19:14:34 * TerrorWolf sets mode -m #stdc Jan 25 19:14:54 Wow, you are really structuring this aren't you? Jan 25 19:15:01 Yes we do Jan 25 19:15:11 Anymore questions? Jan 25 19:15:15 --> Sefam (evilsefam@70F8506A.59F5B8AF.20736F15.IP) has joined #stdc Jan 25 19:15:20 hi Sefam Jan 25 19:15:26 Hey Shonsu Jan 25 19:15:29 Welcome Sefam Jan 25 19:15:31 Seeing none we will start with our first topic Jan 25 19:15:34 * TerrorWolf sets mode +m #stdc Jan 25 19:16:29 We all know that we all experience different shifting varieties -- Mental, dream, astral, phantom limb, etc. What similarities are there between these types, and also what contrasts do they have? Is there a route cause between them and your own personal viewpoints Jan 25 19:16:31 on therianthropy? Jan 25 19:16:51 How do they manifest themselves in your everyday life? Jan 25 19:16:53 and lastly Jan 25 19:17:25 What about contherianthropy and suntherianthropy? Jan 25 19:17:53 Does anyoen wish to pose their first viewpoint? Jan 25 19:18:12 And note if you want to PM in mibbit, just double-click their name on the sidebar and it opens a new tab Jan 25 19:18:13 * TerrorWolf has changed the topic to: This is the Serious Therianthropy Discussion Chat. Chats are the second and fourth Sunday of every month at 7PM. During other times this channel may be used for serious therianthropy discussions. | Please contact someone with ops (@) if you have a question or need voiced. Jan 25 19:19:03 I'll start with mine Jan 25 19:19:25 I personally have experienced phantom shifts most often. Jan 25 19:19:33 In that I'll feel muzzles and a tail and paws Jan 25 19:19:46 Sense shifts, feeling a heightened sense is sometimes considered different Jan 25 19:19:59 I feel it's a psychological thing, and therefore fits in with mental shifts Jan 25 19:20:05 Which I have also experienced but to a lesser degree Jan 25 19:20:22 Wolfpaws wants in so I'll let him talk :P Jan 25 19:20:27 * #STDC :No such nick/channel Jan 25 19:20:31 * WolfFriend gives voice to wolfpaws Jan 25 19:20:39 There you go Jan 25 19:20:48 Thanks. Jan 25 19:21:31 As WolfFriend, I have the same shifts, but unlike just ocasianally, they're more or less always present... Jan 25 19:22:36 I can't put my finger on it, but it seems, that I'm always in a light shifted state... Jan 25 19:22:48 Similar to how contherianthropes feel? Jan 25 19:23:15 >Where you are always in some state of being mentally or phantomly shifted< Jan 25 19:23:29 Something like. Or suntherianism... For both I just couldn't find enough information to put it in a word... Jan 25 19:23:51 --> Amourosa (95a98a0f@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Jan 25 19:23:54 TerrorWolf: Yeah. Jan 25 19:23:58 * TerrorWolf nods Jan 25 19:24:29 When you are done speaking please let one of the ops know. Jan 25 19:25:20 It just feels... I don't know... So natural... So, I don't even really have that period, when people shift from here to there... Jan 25 19:26:05 So... *shrug*... I'm done... If something else comes up, I'll not someone :3 Jan 25 19:26:13 * TerrorWolf removes voice from wolfpaws Jan 25 19:26:17 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Wolf-Bone Jan 25 19:26:26 I should probably mention first that my own spirituality has taken a sharp turn from "traditional" therianthropy over the last few years. I see fewer and fewer barriers between the mental, spiritual and physical aspects of life. For me, to "shift" is merely to remember what God create in Iself and be conscious. Jan 25 19:26:31 Queue: Sefam, Angel, Kumiho Jan 25 19:26:41 btw if any of that got cut off, lemme know and I'll break it down Jan 25 19:27:19 Reminder: Mibbit users, if you wish to PM just double click someones name on the left bar. Jan 25 19:27:25 *right bar Jan 25 19:27:29 I think we're ok thus far. It ended as "be conscious"? Jan 25 19:27:43 yes Jan 25 19:28:52 --> Kieron (4476cacb@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Jan 25 19:29:39 Welcome Kieron Jan 25 19:29:41 So much of being "human" is ideology. Ideology is a denial of reality. To "shift" is to shift from that state, to one truer to ones self not only as an individual being of life, but as an extension of the source of life. Jan 25 19:31:32 --> Karly (46e285d5@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Jan 25 19:31:43 so when I FEEL or DREAM that I am something, that is my mind wrestling with the contradiction of having to be one way according to these constructs but being designed for another purpose Jan 25 19:33:04 --> Sonne (474d1a11@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Jan 25 19:33:18 Hello Karly and Sonne Jan 25 19:33:30 and it uses what it knows. Anyone whose studies lucid dreaming or psychology knows what I'm talking about. All imagery or perception of a sensation you can identify with something you can put an image to is your minds way of telling you something that goes beyond the simple image. Jan 25 19:33:48 Reminder: If you want to be put in the queue to give your thoughts, PM Me, TerrorWolf, or Pastedos. Jan 25 19:35:03 Wolf-Bone: Final paragraph so we can let others at least get their thoughts out into the open please. Jan 25 19:35:03 <-- Pastedos has quit (Connection reset by peer) Jan 25 19:35:05 --> Pastedos (none@WS239FFA-7751611B.lightspeed.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) has joined #stdc Jan 25 19:35:14 * WolfFriend gives channel operator status to Pastedos Jan 25 19:36:40 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Sefam Jan 25 19:36:40 In closing, therianthropy (and I'm not sure about this therianthropy/contherianthropy/suntherianthropy dichotomy) is a consciousness. Shifting is changing from different states of conscioussness. Jan 25 19:37:05 Queue: Angel, Kumiho, Shonsu Jan 25 19:37:26 Queue: Angel, Kumiho, Shonsu, Anuolf Jan 25 19:37:27 Thanks, it's my first time, so please excuse my level of nervosity Jan 25 19:37:33 * TerrorWolf removes voice from Wolf-Bone Jan 25 19:38:06 We are gonna put everyone on a five minute time frame at max. After that you will be de-voiced so we are not here SUPER LATE :-P Jan 25 19:38:18 Alright, I'm rolling Jan 25 19:38:19 That's fine, Sefam. :) Jan 25 19:39:27 I will start out by saying I have the same kind of phantom shifts than wolfpaws. From the strongest presence to the less, tail, paws, muzzle, ears Jan 25 19:40:22 Although they are always(phantoms) present, they sometimes get stronger spontaneously. Jan 25 19:41:44 Anything else Sefam? Jan 25 19:41:46 Onto mental shifts, I've been having mental shifts occasionally, especially around animals. Jan 25 19:41:57 Could you repost the topic here? Jan 25 19:42:07 It's annoying to scroll up and I remember half of it Jan 25 19:42:25 Compares and contrasts between different shifting varieties Jan 25 19:42:35 Alright Jan 25 19:42:49 I dunno how to explain mental shifts, seems like my mind gets simpler. Jan 25 19:44:22 Queue: Kumiho, Shonsu, Anuolf | Then we will discuss the sub-topics people have raised. Jan 25 19:44:26 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Angel Jan 25 19:44:27 I've experienced rare dream shifts, but I get booted off after shifting and sometimes astral shifts when either lying down or meditating. I think astral and dream shifts are similar in a way while phantom and mental are a constrast of them Jan 25 19:44:37 I'm done Jan 25 19:44:42 * TerrorWolf removes voice from Sefam Jan 25 19:45:06 Although I do not shift, but am fully integrated with the wolf within, I do experience phantom limbs. Sometimes these limbs feel stronger then other times. However, they are always there. A tail, hackles, ears and a muzzle are the most noticable. Jan 25 19:45:18 I do however experience shifting in dreams, where I can experience the sensation of my human body becoming a wolf. Jan 25 19:45:28 I suppose because I am constantly a wolf, I experience my therianthropy differently then others. Jan 25 19:45:46 Angel: As a contherian I do not see you as that much different with what you just said Jan 25 19:46:27 Yes, contherians definitly can relate. I forgot about that. ;) Jan 25 19:46:31 It has become a struggle for me to function like others in society, but I have learned to cope. Jan 25 19:46:59 Perhaps if I could shift it would be easier, but I know I am happier this way; always who I am right down to the core of my being. Then again, I don't know what I'm missing. Jan 25 19:48:10 For all I know, the experience of feeling the difference between being without an animal mindset and being with one is a remarkable thing. That's why I love to listen to what others experience. Jan 25 19:48:24 Done, thanks. :3 Jan 25 19:48:29 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Kumiho Jan 25 19:48:33 * TerrorWolf removes voice from Angel Jan 25 19:48:35 Philosophically I believe that there is a strong link between the mental and the spiritual side of entities so I was just thinking that phantom shifts could be the waking expression of dream shifts. Generally, in a dream, your form is the self-image that you have at that moment. If you shift in a dream then subconciously, that is how you are percieving your being most strongly. Phantom shifts could be the same as a dream shift just occurring Jan 25 19:48:54 " dream shift just occurring " ... did it cut off? Jan 25 19:49:03 it must have Jan 25 19:49:05 just a sec Jan 25 19:49:19 subconsciously while you are awake. Jan 25 19:49:32 Ok. Jan 25 19:49:43 done for now thanks. Jan 25 19:49:49 * TerrorWolf removes voice from Kumiho Jan 25 19:49:52 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Shonsu Jan 25 19:49:56 cool. Lets talk shift inducing stimuli. Jan 25 19:49:59 :D Jan 25 19:50:17 Like sefam and WolfFriend i constantly feel certain phantom limbs Jan 25 19:50:34 usually notable canine features missing on the human body Jan 25 19:51:25 Usually they arent very noticable but at certain times an outside source can cause a spark of sensation than causes them to feel much more pronounced Jan 25 19:52:19 Ive noticed that many times this stimuli is audio related. High pitched sounds. sudden loud sounds, constant low pitch repetitive frequencies Jan 25 19:52:49 on the same note, Mental shifting can be induced in this way Jan 25 19:52:58 at least for me :P Jan 25 19:54:15 Ive conducted a few little experiments with other members of the community, having them listen to various tracks of music and responding with their result if any and have noticed similar trends wich leads me to believe that there may be something to shift inducing stimilus Jan 25 19:54:40 aaaand im done for now. If anyone wants to discuss further they can PM me Jan 25 19:54:48 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Anuolf Jan 25 19:54:51 * TerrorWolf removes voice from Shonsu Jan 25 19:54:57 Oh we will be discussing that latter point ;) Jan 25 19:55:02 I have mental, dream, phantom, and sensory shifts. However, due to a high stress level, I haven't felt too many of these sensations. All these shifts, I believe, relate to the mind and how it perceives these changes of one's state. Another note is that I "suffer" heavily from species dysphoria. The less I shift, the more I become distressed about being human and forcing myself to be a part of human society. Jan 25 19:56:45 Mental and phantom shifts become very strong for me when I'm wandering in a forest, or during arousal. My dream shifts have no trigger that I've found as of yet. But my sensory shifts come on fast and strong usually if I'm eating rare to med.-rare meats or small shellfish [foods the two animals my theriotype is hybridized with would eat]. Jan 25 19:56:53 --> Buffalo (margaret@WS239FFA-C93D736A.static.blackfoot.net) has joined #stdc Jan 25 19:57:08 * [Buffalo] (margaret@WS239FFA-C93D736A.static.blackfoot.net): Margaret Sandor Jan 25 19:57:08 * [Buffalo] is using modes +wx Jan 25 19:57:08 * [Buffalo] is connecting from *@12-32-44-12.static.blackfoot.net 12.32.44.12 Jan 25 19:57:08 * [Buffalo] #stdc Jan 25 19:57:08 * [Buffalo] irc.weresource.org :Weresource IRC Network Jan 25 19:57:08 * [Buffalo] idle 00:00:32, signon: Sun Jan 25 19:56:40 Jan 25 19:57:08 * [Buffalo] End of WHOIS list. Jan 25 19:57:14 Welcome Buffalo Jan 25 19:58:01 Usually, the mental and sensory shifts go hand in hand while eating these foods, and it has taken quite a bit of energy for me to remain "civilized" at the table. Jan 25 20:00:21 These shifts are similar in that they all are "activated" within one's mind, but they are different in how they manifest themselves. Mental controls mostly the thought process, phantom the "physical", dream the "spiritual" or wishful thinking, and sensory being obvious. Jan 25 20:00:28 And I believe I'm done. Jan 25 20:00:39 Thank you for your insight Jan 25 20:00:39 We are going to unmoderate the channel and start open discussion now Jan 25 20:00:51 * WolfFriend removes voice from Anuolf Jan 25 20:00:54 * WolfFriend sets mode -m #stdc Jan 25 20:00:58 Ok Jan 25 20:01:02 Noe everyone can talk! Jan 25 20:01:14 Now* Jan 25 20:01:15 YEAH!!! Jan 25 20:01:20 seen Jan 25 20:01:39 * Buffalo waves Jan 25 20:01:52 Ok, so is there anything that anyone wants to discuss further on this topic? Jan 25 20:02:20 well most definitely right now, we seem to be on the same page on one thing Jan 25 20:02:36 So Sefam brought up that astral and dream shifts are analogous in some way to phantom and mental shifts respectively. Any thoughts? Jan 25 20:02:45 I'm not sure if my "speech" was understandable, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask them. Jan 25 20:02:50 and that is society as a whole is at odds with us, whether or not them know it Jan 25 20:03:34 well, i wouldnt know when it comes to astral shifting (I dont invest much in it) Jan 25 20:03:43 same here Jan 25 20:03:45 Wolf-Bone: Our common experience definitely would be an alien experience for most people in general society. Jan 25 20:03:57 TerrorWolf: I'm not sure, that lucid dreaming and astral projection can be the same. It's possible, but I don't think, that they are... Jan 25 20:04:04 Yes, I've not done much in astral shifting myself. Jan 25 20:04:16 however i find that dream shifts follow shortly after heavy mental shifts Jan 25 20:04:18 Astral shifting? Can't say I've ever heard of that before. Jan 25 20:04:25 one or two days after Jan 25 20:04:29 WolfFriend: I think every therian needs to ask themself this: would it be so if they weren't therian? Jan 25 20:04:53 --> Gryphling (440dd152@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Jan 25 20:04:58 * WolfFriend nods Jan 25 20:04:59 hullo Gryphling Jan 25 20:05:05 Welcome, Gryphling Jan 25 20:05:06 Hello Grpyhling Jan 25 20:05:13 Evening all Jan 25 20:05:14 Hello, Gryphling. We are currently in open discussion about the different types of shifting Jan 25 20:05:18 and on the subject of dream shifting/ludic dreaming, I need some insight Jan 25 20:05:25 Sure. Jan 25 20:05:36 Thanks WolfFriend Jan 25 20:05:43 :) Jan 25 20:06:13 I'd be interested in what others are seeing as experiences in their forms of shifting and dreaming Jan 25 20:06:45 I've been at war with the Babylon system weapon of mass destruction known as the cigarette from long time. Of course, I use the patch which is known to increase the vividness of dreams and ones capacity to remember them with clarity Jan 25 20:06:47 Its been a long time since I have d-shifted. I am a contherian, I do admittingly have some moments where I have indeed m-shifted. Jan 25 20:07:14 but do you suppose it could actually make it difficult to lucid dream? It is a psychoactive chemical after all Jan 25 20:07:23 oh yeah Jan 25 20:07:28 Depends on how it effects your brain chemistry Jan 25 20:07:33 surely what I experience in such a dream can not be fully my own minds creation Jan 25 20:07:42 When i used to smoke it made it much easier to slip into a mental shift Jan 25 20:07:43 Wolf-Bone: Maybe. But in that matter, we all would experience "alien" things, right? We *ALL* experienced something, that was at least 'awkward', or at most 'out of this world'... Jan 25 20:07:47 If anything, Wolf-Bone, I'd think it'd make your chance of lucid dreaming greater. Jan 25 20:07:51 I believe the resident cellular biologist can help us here Jan 25 20:08:02 Sorry, I'm back. Jan 25 20:08:09 But then again, alcohol is supposed to make you sleep less easily, preventing dreams, so I don't know if it'd do something simil.ar to that Jan 25 20:08:23 one particular shift i have had alot of lately is a phantom tail.. however, I hate it and get frustrated with trying to 'rip it off' but cant. Like, I will get into a near rage of frustration trying to get rid of it Jan 25 20:08:26 It effects everyoen differently. Jan 25 20:08:30 Wolf-Bone: I believe that it and the music are related in their ability to induce shiftw Jan 25 20:08:40 Gryphling: then maybe I'm just not capable of it, because I will beautifully fail to pick up on the most OBVIOUS dream signs. Or worse, I will DO exactly what I planned to do in a lucid dream, but not be aware that I'm dreaming Jan 25 20:08:44 Kieron: Because human society isn't designed for peopel with tails, correct? Jan 25 20:09:34 Really, Gryphling? Whenever I drink alcohol [I drink the more fru-fru drinks], I become relaxed, sleepy, and find myself having one of the best, albeit dreamless, sleeps. Jan 25 20:09:35 My phantom tail, if it's strong enough, can be annoying when I have to drive or sit for long periods of time. Because it can't realistically fit in seats like that. Jan 25 20:09:36 TerrorWolf: But the question is; Can contherian actually m-shifts? Or just shifts deeper, than it usually is? Jan 25 20:09:49 wolfpaws: Touche! Jan 25 20:09:53 Can anyone explain to me what's exactly a contherian? Jan 25 20:10:06 i guess thats part of it.. i have been hating and trying to wish away being a therian lately Jan 25 20:10:10 I looked it up and it just gives me a single sentence as a description. Jan 25 20:10:13 its not working Jan 25 20:10:14 Anuolf, that's actually what it does with me too, hence the 'supposed to.' my roomie The Bologist (XD) says it's supposed to Jan 25 20:10:14 TerrorWolf, you want to answer Sefam's question? Jan 25 20:10:25 Sefam: Someone who's constantly in shifted state Jan 25 20:10:33 Someone who is constantly in a (usually light) stage of shift Jan 25 20:10:38 Usually mental or phantom. Jan 25 20:10:39 Wolfpaws: Yea but can't m-shift? Jan 25 20:10:44 or both Jan 25 20:10:55 * TerrorWolf has phantom paws a lot Jan 25 20:11:08 Sefam: Same thing, just one is constant, the other is ocasional. Jan 25 20:11:08 Kieron: is it being a therian specifically you hate, or just being a human who is consciouss? Jan 25 20:11:12 TerrorWolf: hind or forepaws? Jan 25 20:11:18 That's interesting, Gryph, because it has the same effect on my mom as it does me. Jan 25 20:11:20 <-- Kieron has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) Jan 25 20:11:21 Usually fore, sometimes hind Jan 25 20:11:31 --> Kieron (4476cacb@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Jan 25 20:11:32 Same here. Jan 25 20:11:33 Right now both. Jan 25 20:11:35 <-- Karly has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) Jan 25 20:11:38 TerrorWolf: both for me Jan 25 20:11:41 btw, wtf is a suntherian? before today I'd never heard the term Jan 25 20:12:06 i would say the lack of solid 'what i am.' i would rather be wolf or human but not this mix Jan 25 20:12:07 Wolf-Bone: a therian made of millions of pouns of hydrogen Jan 25 20:12:13 Anuolf, it may be that the depressent in alcohol makes the sleepstate feel deeper...illusion sort of thing. But I don't really know the science of it Jan 25 20:12:14 Yes, new terminology on the subject seems to be coined regularily Jan 25 20:12:17 Wolf-Bone: Damn good question... I've looked up definition, and it's the same as contherian' Jan 25 20:12:30 http://therian.wikia.com/wiki/Suntherian Jan 25 20:12:37 Lol Shonsu Jan 25 20:12:38 and seeing as my body is already one of them, thats the logic step to take Jan 25 20:12:39 A suntherian is similar to a contherian except instead the shifts are more like a pull between one side or the other. They're less dramatic. You are contantly shifted, and then have slight waverings to more shifted or less shifted. This is my undersatnding of it. Jan 25 20:13:00 As opposed to a contherian who doesn't typically shift. Jan 25 20:13:16 It's usually a therian who remains in a shifted state, but will occasionally have mild level changes of that shift.. That's what I've been able to catch floating around at least. Jan 25 20:13:30 for future or further reference of types of therians: http://project-shift.org/terms.html Jan 25 20:13:37 As per usual, the experiencee can be their own lexicographer Jan 25 20:13:38 --> Velox (rick@WS239FFA-62128EBB.resnet.umbc.edu) has joined #stdc Jan 25 20:13:38 For a while (and I still do mull about it) I think my experience is probably similar to that of a suntherian Jan 25 20:13:47 Though I don't often take that label for myself. Jan 25 20:14:00 hmmm, so the were community isn't COMPLETELY dying then Jan 25 20:14:02 Judging by that description, likewise WolfFriend. Jan 25 20:14:07 hello all Jan 25 20:14:07 WolfFriend: I would be inclined to agree, but we do not have enough experience w/ that term to really feel it out. Jan 25 20:14:09 I don't typically consider myself a contherian, though. I don't know if contherians feel as strongly as I do.. Jan 25 20:14:09 same here Jan 25 20:14:16 Indeed, TerrorWolf. Jan 25 20:14:34 I suppose it would be best to find the person who coined it and ask them their views on it. Jan 25 20:14:44 Wolf-Bone: Some of us try to keep it going more than others. Jan 25 20:14:53 The use of additional terms for Therians seems redundant Jan 25 20:14:54 * Wolf-Bone sees no need to examine these more likely than not false dichotomies within Iself. Jan 25 20:14:57 WolfFriend: Yeah we shall try to get WordWolf on here. Jan 25 20:15:02 That would be good :) Jan 25 20:15:10 WordWolf? Jan 25 20:15:15 He coined 'suntherianthropy' Jan 25 20:15:20 Sevian: Agreed. Jan 25 20:15:22 i dont know if i like all these therian labels.. i understand the purpose of them, but it seems that experiences differ so much even between people experiencing the same thing, that its moot to begin with Jan 25 20:15:27 I'm kind of illiterate when it comes to therianthropy terms Jan 25 20:15:30 We DO overlabel as a a group Jan 25 20:15:31 D: Jan 25 20:15:34 No worries, Sefam. :) Jan 25 20:15:37 Its just that once people start to use these terms, everyone has to Jan 25 20:15:40 Yes Jan 25 20:15:41 Otherwise people feel slighted Jan 25 20:15:41 Yes Jan 25 20:15:49 Or that "nothing" explains them. Jan 25 20:15:51 Sefam: I have an interesting question for you: If you're swimming in the pool just below the water, completely wet, will you get more wet if you dive deeper into the pool? Jan 25 20:16:06 Nope. Jan 25 20:16:07 It's like back when the term Otherkin came out Jan 25 20:16:40 And what's the point of your analogy wolfpaws? Jan 25 20:16:42 do any of you ever hate being a therian? Jan 25 20:16:49 and want to wish it away? Jan 25 20:16:52 Anyway, I suppose terminology is probably a matter best left for another discussion? Jan 25 20:17:00 Kieron: That is off-topic. Jan 25 20:17:03 My personal view of labelling oneself (at this point in my evolution) is that I will casually use them to describe myself if I feel it works. However, I won't commit to one or the other. They are simply tools for the conversation at hand. Jan 25 20:17:06 Kieron: No because without it I'd probably be thinking something else right now. Jan 25 20:17:25 Ok Jan 25 20:17:28 The labeling topic is something we are going to touch in depth on another night. Jan 25 20:17:32 I'll stop with the off-topic labelling :P Jan 25 20:17:44 :) Jan 25 20:17:49 I definitely feel like I'm forced to use the term contherian. Jan 25 20:17:56 --> geek (geek@WS239FFA-C1C91D0.delta16.maxonline.com.sg) has joined #stdc Jan 25 20:17:57 for shame WolfFriend Jan 25 20:18:01 hi geek Jan 25 20:18:01 Why forced, Angel? Jan 25 20:18:03 Hehe Shonsu Jan 25 20:18:07 Sefam: The point, at least from my side is: You can't m-shift, because you're already in shifted state... However, you can just go deeper... Jan 25 20:18:07 Yes, why forced? Jan 25 20:18:11 I'm personally not going to use them Jan 25 20:18:14 Kieron: no. What I hate is that others deny reality and try to impose their illusions on me in an effort to convince themselves it's truth Jan 25 20:18:23 and that would be true whether or not I was a therian Jan 25 20:18:45 what do you mean? what do they try to impose? Jan 25 20:18:47 Because when I say I do not shift, but always am, that is how people immediately label me. I am automatically a contherian to most of the community. Jan 25 20:18:55 Ah Jan 25 20:19:17 Angel: Thats the problem w/ definitions, and if thats all you say, its a logical conclusion. Jan 25 20:19:23 Angel: you could always take my approach and refuse to use the terms ;) Jan 25 20:19:33 Kieron: ideologies, systems of control, whatever myths they can concoct to justify it. Jan 25 20:19:59 Yes, I do not use terms and labels for myself. I only use them in discussions such as these, and even now I don't label myself but rather refer to the terms. Jan 25 20:20:37 they can believe their own lies, I wouldn't be able to believe mine, let alone theirs Jan 25 20:20:39 Alright guys time for the next topic (Should be a quick one) Jan 25 20:20:44 * TerrorWolf sets mode +m #stdc Jan 25 20:21:03 If you had anything more to say, you can say it to the person in PM Jan 25 20:21:04 Reminder: If you wish to speak during the moderated portions, please PM (double click their name on the right bar) either myself, Pastedos, or WolfFriend. Jan 25 20:21:05 :) Jan 25 20:22:19 Some therians have dream shifts -- But what if during the day when you day dreamed you had a d-shift? AKA how do you imagine your life if who you are in a d-shift represented yourself in reality. Jan 25 20:23:19 Anyone wish to add their thoughts? Jan 25 20:23:27 Could we have some more clarification, TerrorWolf? Jan 25 20:24:15 <-- lelizabeth has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) Jan 25 20:24:18 Sorry I use conflicting terms haha Jan 25 20:24:21 Do you mean, when you daydream during day to day life, what if you shifted during that daydream? Jan 25 20:24:40 As in you daydreamed of yourself in the current situation, but as your theriotype? Jan 25 20:24:43 Yes Jan 25 20:25:08 Queue: Gryphling, Kieron, ANgel, Wolf-Bone Jan 25 20:25:17 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Gryphling Jan 25 20:26:15 --> Bearcat (bearcat@WS239FFA-C93D736A.static.blackfoot.net) has joined #stdc Jan 25 20:26:44 Welcome Bearcat Jan 25 20:26:46 This happens to me constantly. Of course, I'm typically in a constant state of some kind of shift (or awareness? Anyway.) But I've found myself 'zoning out' (or daydreaming) a lot recently, and during these my vision tends to go a little out of focus and I'll pay more attention to the peripherals, which is how a bird of prey views its world when it's trying to take in everything at once. Jan 25 20:27:48 I tend to 'wake up' from these with a big ol' pair of wings heavy on my shoulders, and hunched forward in my seat/stance to accomodate. Generally, it's when I've been in class or other crowded areas, and I get this wicked urge to bite at people and hiss to get some room. Jan 25 20:28:27 Of course, doing so in public is BAD with all caps, so I tend to wait until the crowd's backs are turned before clicking my teeth/beak at random person #1 quickly, just to alleviate the shift a bit and let myself 'vent.' Jan 25 20:30:26 This helps, weirdly enough. As the intensity of the dream-shift fades I'll feel my shoulders and back untense and actually get my neck to crack. Feathers unruffle, that sort of thing. But my friends have been commenting on a new directness in my eyes following these moments, and have told me a few times that "I'm scary." Jan 25 20:30:26 So...take of that what you will. /comment Jan 25 20:30:32 * TerrorWolf removes voice from Gryphling Jan 25 20:30:36 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Kieron Jan 25 20:31:12 * TerrorWolf removes voice from Kieron Jan 25 20:31:17 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Angel Jan 25 20:31:21 I often daydream as myself in my percieved wolf body. For example, when I'm driving (as a passenger) I often visualize myself running along side the car. I visualize myself as a wolf almost constantly. Jan 25 20:31:23 Queue: Kieron, Wolf-Bone, Shonsu Jan 25 20:31:51 I always visualize how I would react if I physically was a wolf. Itâ€™s like a guide, insight into my instincts and feelings. Very powerful perhaps because I have a fantastic imagination and visualization skills. Jan 25 20:32:56 When Iâ€™m threatened or angry, I can see myself snarling in my mind; itâ€™s always a very powerful daydream. Itâ€™s like the ultimate window into my innermost being. I can see exactly how I feel and think about any given situation. Jan 25 20:33:39 I always daydream about myself as a wolf. I sometimes wonder if I am remembering past lives. I find this a powerful tool in expressing myself, as well as a spiritual outlet. Jan 25 20:33:51 <-- Gryphling has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) Jan 25 20:34:45 It's my inner animal's voice to the human mind, so to speak. I think it's a way for my human brain to understand my wolf spirit's presence... as powerful as it is, it can be utterly overwhelming. Jan 25 20:34:53 Done, thank you. Jan 25 20:35:12 * TerrorWolf gives channel operator status to Kieron Jan 25 20:35:16 Queue: Wolf-Bone, Shonsu Jan 25 20:35:34 i have come out of daydreams with several different experiences. The first experience is coming out of a day dream and being on all fours. Sometimes i have had the urge to bite or chew on something. This isnt always the best situation because of my occupation in a professional environment. Jan 25 20:35:34 * TerrorWolf removes voice from Angel Jan 25 20:35:37 * TerrorWolf gives voice to Kieron Jan 25 20:35:41 * TerrorWolf removes channel operator status from Kieron Jan 25 20:35:52 The second experience i have had is when i see a daydream like a video where I am in it as a wolf, but i see it from the 3rd person. Then i will see myself where i am walking around as a wolf sniffing things, walking slowly, loping, running away, etc. all in the 3rd person, until i snap out of it. This one isnt as common, but is definitely the strangest. Jan 25 20:35:59 I dont know what the 'daydream videos' are.. they are extremely detailed and very vivid and i always see other wolves in them. Jan 25 20:36:51 Neither of these are very good to happen during 'business hours' so to speak.. but happen when i drift off Jan 25 20:37:03 Done Jan 25 20:37:29 * WolfFriend gives voice to Wolf-Bone Jan 25 20:37:33 * WolfFriend removes voice from Kieron Jan 25 20:37:41 Queue: Shonsu Jan 25 20:38:17 --> Gryphling (440dd152@WS239FFA-2C33FAE9.mibbit.com) has joined #stdc Jan 25 20:38:26 Wolf-Bone: you can go ahead Jan 25 20:38:39 There was a point a few months back where my life was in a very bad situation - and so I wanted it to just end. Not suicidal, I just wanted to die. So I would spend a lot of time smoking herb, putting myself in a deep meditative state, visualizing just "letting go" Jan 25 20:38:50 which is difficult in itself to do Jan 25 20:39:21 one of the few times I had some measure of success was sort of like an out of body experience Jan 25 20:40:01 I sort've saw my own body, which would sort've randomly morph from human to anthro wolf to this weird, fleshy, pulsating monstrosity Jan 25 20:40:55 but then while I was seeing that, I'd separate even further and see what I guess was supposed to be my life force, this ball of light Jan 25 20:42:23 I must've been hallucinating at that point because I was then seeing a completely different world, where a human who was supposed to be me was running through a tall building in a city, racing to the bottom and out the entrance. He/me was extactic Jan 25 20:42:43 Queue: Shonsu, Bearcat | Open discussion Jan 25 20:43:14 but then he/I felt this terrible sense of dread, looking up at the sky to see what looked like two suns on a collision course. as they met, I came to. It was the most fucked up thing I've ever experienced. Jan 25 20:43:39 there's not much more I can add to that. Jan 25 20:43:54 Are you done then? Jan 25 20:43:59 yes Jan 25 20:44:01 Ok Jan 25 20:44:08 * WolfFriend gives voice to Shonsu Jan 25 20:44:12 :P Jan 25 20:44:15 * WolfFriend removes voice from Wolf-Bone Jan 25 20:44:36 well, i dont think i have much that is in depth to say on the subject Jan 25 20:45:08 however Jan 25 20:45:36 i believe that this D-shifting is something i have experienced but not payed much mind to Jan 25 20:46:02 meh, never mind Jan 25 20:46:05 im done -__- Jan 25 20:46:09 You sure? Jan 25 20:46:11 yuh Jan 25 20:46:12 Ok Jan 25 20:46:17 * WolfFriend gives voice to Bearcat Jan 25 20:46:22 sorry Jan 25 20:46:26 * WolfFriend removes voice from Shonsu Jan 25 20:46:27 It's ok :) Jan 25 20:46:37 Bearcat: You're up Jan 25 20:46:42 dreamshifting is an interesting subject for me Jan 25 20:47:12 i don't shift. In fact i might not even be a therianthrope at all, but it's the most comfortable lable for now. Jan 25 20:47:34 to make a very long story short, i am an anthro-feline, not a human-animal mixture. Jan 25 20:48:24 in my own mind when i experiance any memory i am an anthrofeilne. If i imagine what i was doign yesterday and i catch sight of my own hands, they are paws. Jan 25 20:49:31 In dreams i am always an anthrofeilne as well, but when i need to be human for some reason for others reactions or some such (my dreams are quite logical and story driven) i have a traslucent human overlay on me that looks like the body i wear day in and day out in this life.) Jan 25 20:50:20 It's one of my strongest arguments for my therianthropy that i can't shut off the "i see myself as an anthro-feline 24/7 in my own head." Jan 25 20:51:08 so i suppose that i do shift, in dreams it's just that what is me never changes. In my dreams the human is just a disguise. Jan 25 20:51:12 *done* Jan 25 20:51:25 Ok Jan 25 20:51:30 We're going into open discussion now Jan 25 20:51:38 * WolfFriend removes voice from Bearcat Jan 25 20:51:42 * WolfFriend sets mode -m #stdc Jan 25 20:51:46 Bearcat: I also see myself as wolf 24/7 in my mind. That's a fanastic way to explain it. Jan 25 20:51:50 Very good Bearcat :3 Jan 25 20:51:55 *purrs* Jan 25 20:52:15 Angel: wow! It's nice to know i'm not the only one. Are you bi or quad Jan 25 20:52:18 * geek tends to think of her body as a tool. granted, having two sides, i see myself as whatever i am at the time Jan 25 20:52:19 Bearcat: anthro filene? Interesting concept :) Jan 25 20:52:21 I admit that i dont see myself as a fox 100% of the time Jan 25 20:52:37 Quad! ;) Jan 25 20:52:41 Bearcat, your use of the phrase "the body I wear day in and day out" caught my interest...have you heard about the Native American legend of the skinwalker? Jan 25 20:52:41 Shonsu, we're in the same boat, however I do see myself as a dog at least much of the time. :) Jan 25 20:52:49 wolfpaws: it's a very long story. I have never felt human, and i have long had feelings of missing "home' which is not here. Jan 25 20:52:58 it really depends on my condition Jan 25 20:53:05 Bearcat: actually i think i know an anthrobiwolf... someone on werelist... Jan 25 20:53:07 I mentally may see myself doing something as a human in some instances, but may mentally see myself react as a dog would in other instances./ Jan 25 20:53:13 Gryphling: i have. There is a book on navajo skin walking that i have been trying to find for years. Jan 25 20:53:15 most of the time I am a fox though :P Jan 25 20:53:16 It's very situation-oriented for me. Jan 25 20:53:17 <-- Veruth has quit (Quit: Leaving) Jan 25 20:53:18 Bearcat: 'not there' is relative IMO Jan 25 20:53:30 geek: not from Earth then. Jan 25 20:53:39 WolfFriend: same here Jan 25 20:53:43 * Wolf-Bone figures all he experienced was just a bad trip, but it doesn't stop him from agonizing over what the hell two stars colliding in the sky is supposed to represent Jan 25 20:53:46 I always see myself as a wolf. I have species dysphoria. Jan 25 20:53:56 Bearcat: that works, but thats cause i have a longing to go back to where i remember Jan 25 20:54:07 Angel: in memory how do you see yourself doing bipedal things like driving a car? Jan 25 20:54:09 WolfFriend: do you have more flares of shifty activity when physicly exerted? Jan 25 20:54:12 Angel: My angelic side is female. i have phantom periods ;) Jan 25 20:54:16 My animal side so to speak, has a tendency to attack the human side in dreams. That's always been a stirring experience.. Jan 25 20:54:20 Shonsu: Not necessarily, however I can in some cases. Jan 25 20:54:27 Bearcat: I've never felt human, either. So I can understand, what you mean. That's why it has taken me 30 years to find myself... Jan 25 20:54:32 Usually if I'm having strong emotions I will be quite shifty. Regardless of the nature of the emotions. Jan 25 20:54:37 Sevian: might be some inner conflict ? Jan 25 20:54:41 wolfpaws: OLD ;p Jan 25 20:54:42 My human self, I beleive, is very even emotion-wise. Jan 25 20:54:42 No, never bipedal. Always four legged. Those memories, I see a transparent wolf over the human in an awkward position. Jan 25 20:54:49 wolfpaws: wow, same here. I discovered this at age 6. I'm 36 now. Jan 25 20:54:49 Bearcat, good luck in finding it. From what I know of the legend, your experience seems very similar to the nature behind it. Jan 25 20:54:54 Geek: seems logical enough Jan 25 20:55:05 * wolfpaws throws a rubber duck at geek. Jan 25 20:55:06 WolfFriend: i think i know what you mean. Jan 25 20:55:06 WolfFriend: same as mine, after 12. i feel i see emotions through a wolf or angelic 'filter' Jan 25 20:55:07 It's like a blurry mixing of the two aspects. The physical and the spiritual. Jan 25 20:55:08 Angel: so kinda of the opposite of my dreams Jan 25 20:55:09 Hush, you :P Jan 25 20:55:15 Yes, geek. :) Jan 25 20:55:41 My emotional outlook and how I relate to the world is very largely one of my basis for why I think I'm a dog therian. Jan 25 20:55:48 Gryphling: well, i have alien memories that i can not explain too well. Jan 25 20:56:13 Note: We will continue open discussion for 15 more minutes and then go into the final topic for tonight Jan 25 20:56:27 I do have one recent memory of sitting in class, and I do see myself as a wolf sitting on the chair. It's actually pretty amusing. However, I can understand that there wasn't a wolf there, but the human. And I CAN visualize that human self as it really was. Jan 25 20:56:28 Bearcat: what do you mean by alien memories? they didnt actually happen or literally memories of aliens :-P Jan 25 20:56:47 Bearcat: same as mine, but as you know, i'm working on reconstructing as much as i can Jan 25 20:57:08 Alien memories = visions of past lives? Jan 25 20:57:14 Okay I'm back. Jan 25 20:57:16 WolfFriend: What do you mean "final topic"? One has only be discussed... Jan 25 20:57:19 wb ani Jan 25 20:57:22 Bearcat, alien as in extraterrestrial or alien as in 'not familiar'? Jan 25 20:57:22 wolfpaws: This is the 2nd topic Jan 25 20:57:30 Welcome back Anuolf Jan 25 20:57:31 Wolf-Bone: since i was 6 i have had memories of being somewhere else, and wearing the anthro-cat body that i see in my head. I rememer people that i knew, what i believed, how i felt, etc Jan 25 20:57:36 It was similar, which is why we put it after the first one, on the different shifting types Jan 25 20:57:39 Gryphling: the former. Jan 25 20:57:45 WolfFriend: No, that's subtopic. Second is religion :P Jan 25 20:57:53 I have what I believe to be visions of past lives. Usually manifested through daydreaming and meditation. Jan 25 20:57:53 We are going out of order :P Jan 25 20:58:05 Wolf-Bone: it has shaped almost every aspect of my life from my belefs, to my sexuality, to my paradigms. Jan 25 20:58:10 Welcome back Anuolf. Jan 25 20:58:10 This was, in the list, #4, wolfpaws Jan 25 20:58:14 2) Therianthropy and religion (how do you reconcile the two, if at all?) Jan 25 20:58:19 Angel: mine tends to turn up at random, triggered by things, but only when that side is dominant ;) Jan 25 20:58:31 WolfFriend: oh Jan 25 20:58:56 <-- Velox (rick@WS239FFA-62128EBB.resnet.umbc.edu) has left #stdc Jan 25 20:59:04 Bearcat: I've had to examine the possibility that this story I'm writing is a form of that, although purposefully filtered through an anthro/therian lense Jan 25 20:59:11 geek: Mine are sometimes randomly triggered as well. Like I had one recently at my great grandmother's funeral, which had nothing to do with loss or family. Jan 25 20:59:16 Wolf-Bone: i wrote an essay a few years ago detailing my own back and forth "is this real" or not. If your interested i'd point you at it. Jan 25 20:59:28 yeah ok Jan 25 20:59:54 so we are going to be discussing therianthropy and religion, or this is a previously discussed topic? Jan 25 21:00:06 Time for me to go, everyone. Peace to you all. And thank you for offering this opportunity. Jan 25 21:00:13 Have a good evening Jan 25 21:00:13 Night Angel Jan 25 21:00:20 Wolf-BOne: The religion topic will be saved for later, but this will be in 10 minutes Jan 25 21:00:21 night Jan 25 21:00:21 good night Jan 25 21:00:25 Night Angel Jan 25 21:00:32 nice to meet you and hear your oppinions Jan 25 21:00:57 It was very good having you here, Angel Jan 25 21:01:02