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Domestication is not an animal trait
Wisteria Equidae
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Post: #1
Domestication is not an animal trait
I've noticed that a lot of "inexperienced" therianthropes who most of the time are the ones questioning confuse human traits with animal traits, as well as the usage of animals.
The urge to be on a leash, wear a collar are not dog traits or any other non-human animal traits. It is an important thing to remember when questioning, keeping out human "similarities" and seeing which are more animal. However, sometimes they can be a sign of domestication for canines and a few felines, as they've been domesticated for the longest of time and have changed a lot.
There is a higher amount of horse therianthropes than in 2017 and early 2018 when I only met a couple of them, none of them were riders. Children are getting access to phones/social media and there are the so called horse girls, too. They have seen riding, almost all of us have seen it and know it, but it is really not a horse trait. A horse didn't have the first tought that it needs to be ridden and should find something to jump over. Jumping, dressage (with exceptions, as classical dressage is based on natural movements), being ridden are not horse traits. Horses prefer to be with their herd outside and playing, rather to be together with us and be ridden, unless they are messed up by humans.
As therianthropy and our identities are natural, a jumping or being on a leash trait is not an animal trait and not part of the nature.

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2020-02-27 16:50
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Post: #2
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
I completely agree, however, I do have one nuance against your statement: the past-life theory. Horse (or any usually domesticated animal) therians might have the feeling of wanting to be domesticated or have the feeling that they should wear collars or so because they might believe that, in their past life, they were domesticated. I personally have a different view on my Therianthropy theories (multi-universal), but I know many therians who believe they have memories of a past life. So that might explain a few things.

~Kyra

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I dream things that never were and say 'why not?'."
2020-04-10 21:59
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Post: #3
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
hmm, that's quite an interesting take! some might disagree because of the past life theory ( one of which i believe in ), but it could just be a trait from that specific life / soul / essence, not a rule for all therians with that theriotype.
for example, some people have exotic / wild animals as pets on their homes, so if a therian were to be a reincarnation or anything similar of an animal like that, they might feel drawn to domestication, even if not entirely.
it's just my opinion, im very new so i could be saying something extremely wrong, but what im trying to say is that every therian is different and were born into this by different means, so it might be a clue, but it's not certain.

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2020-04-10 22:18
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Post: #4
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
I think this argument is a lot less cut and dry as it appears.

I do agree that animals aren't born with the desire to wear these items. A dog that has never worn a collar wouldn't miss one. But, in human society these items are linked so closely with these animals.

Why can't someone, even if they don't believe in past lives, identify as a domesticated animal and be drawn to a saddle/leash/collar? Brains are weird.

The flip side of that coin is that humans can want to wear collars/etc. and it can have nothing to do with being therian. I think it comes down to a more case-by-case basis and having someone examine themselves and their individual motivation.

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2020-04-11 1:25
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Post: #5
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
(2020-04-11 1:25)RuffledGryphon Wrote:  Why can't someone, even if they don't believe in past lives, identify as a domesticated animal and be drawn to a saddle/leash/collar? Brains are weird.

Although I dislike arguments based on "X is weird", I would concur that -- from the perspective that therianthropy is just a way, in which we connect to the way animals approach the challenge of life; it does make sense to also connect with things that humans came up with, that makes the lives of said animals easier in domestic environments.

For example, as a canine, I find the way a friend of mine likes to call his pet dog to follow him (e.g. across a road), very easy to understand and pleasant, despite me being a wolf therian and the call being primarily intended for pet dogs.

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2020-04-11 8:52
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Post: #6
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
Wow, this is really interesting. I feel like I should say something considering I identify as a semi domestic cat, so here goes.
I find that my domestic side is how a house cat is, collars and all. I think it makes sense, even though domestication is theoretically a human concept, and I’m a psychological therian. I think of domestication as a form of evolution. Pets used to be wild; now they have evolved to be domestic by nature. If this was considered invalid due to human influence, we could all be considered cladotherians with the influence of time.

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2020-04-11 9:34
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Post: #7
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
(2020-04-11 9:34)Lynx26 Wrote:  Pets used to be wild; now they have evolved to be domestic by nature.
I'm not sure I believe in that. I've seen a few "domesticated" animals who completely refused to be near humans. And if the humans around them are bad to them, I honestly think there's literally no possibility for these animals to think "this is my destiny, this is where I'm supposed to be and how I'm supposed to live". They just seem to be passive, from what I've seen (my horse was like that, he suffered a lot before coming in my life and never forgot that).
I also have a dog who's completely anxious, even though we have always treated her well and loved her. She's just not able to relax, despite having us around to give her some "security".
I think it's like a lot of things: as every animal is unique, we can't really make a generality out of this question. Let's also not forget that it really isn't about evolution, but genetic tests that we made. Every dog, cat, horse breed exists now because we decided to mix "primal" breeds to make new ones that we wanted, whether for aesthetic purposes or useful ones (for hunting for example). It even got to the point where we could decide how a certain breed would be mentally speaking, even though we can find a few differences between individuals.

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(This post was last modified: 2020-04-11 9:47 by Ora.)
2020-04-11 9:45
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Post: #8
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
(2020-04-11 9:45)Ora Wrote:  
(2020-04-11 9:34)Lynx26 Wrote:  Pets used to be wild; now they have evolved to be domestic by nature.
I'm not sure I believe in that. I've seen a few "domesticated" animals who completely refused to be near humans. And if the humans around them are bad to them, I honestly think there's literally no possibility for these animals to think "this is my destiny, this is where I'm supposed to be and how I'm supposed to live". They just seem to be passive, from what I've seen (my horse was like that, he suffered a lot before coming in my life and never forgot that).
I also have a dog who's completely anxious, even though we have always treated her well and loved her. She's just not able to relax, despite having us around to give her some "security".
I think it's like a lot of things: as every animal is unique, we can't really make a generality out of this question. Let's also not forget that it really isn't about evolution, but genetic tests that we made. Every dog, cat, horse breed exists now because we decided to mix "primal" breeds to make new ones that we wanted, whether for aesthetic purposes or useful ones (for hunting for example). It even got to the point where we could decide how a certain breed would be mentally speaking, even though we can find a few differences between individuals.
Note: this stands loose from the 'domestic dog therians want to wear collars cuz they think its related to being domestic?' topic. And only related to the specific text written by Ora

I disagree that domestication means nearly nothing (what ur text comes down to really short said) and is only related to what animal species we have made ourselves by crossbreeding etc.
It is so far only still a study, so no more than a possible explaination based on a few results and theories.
But in a few researches people are trying to figure out what makes an animal 'domesticated', and/or what domestication changes within an animal. There is a project by example where people for 10-20 or more years have been breeding foxes (originally wild) to become domestic. The results were quiet outstanding: foxes appeared with spots and patterns (simular to how a wolf has 3 pigments per hair while a dog only has 2, which allows the dog to have spots and specific solid patterns and the wolf not), as well as floppy ears, short snouts, short legs, nub tails etc. Simular things as we see within dogbreeds or catbreeds. You can also see this if you compare a wild pig with upstanding ears with the spotted domestic pig with floppy ears. Same with a goat etc. Further on the foxes seemed much calmer. Not automaticly approaching humans, that had to be teached, but much easier comfortable.. trusting.. friendly. (this project was done by breeding the calmest and friendliest with eachother and eliminating the aggressive and fearful foxes), Physical research then showed that these domestic foxes produced a certain hormone (I think it was connected to adrenaline) much less than their wild cousins. This same hormone would have effect on their physical traits like colour, face, tail and leg lenght. This whole domestication process would hereby be a physical change in the animal (and possibly psychological?) which physically makes them calmer and have less fight/flight tendencies. Ofcourse, abuse can psychologically create this or maybe even genetics can create the opposite (if you'd breed aggresive/fearfull dogs with eachother.. would the hormone then become more again in offspring?)

So there is a clear physical red line that defines an animal as domesticated in this adrenaline hormone as well as the physical signs.

Atleast, if the research is confirmed. I repeat, it's still just a research, theory, hypothesis,..

It's maybe just something nice to know hha, and may not mean much to this conversation.

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2020-04-11 13:01
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Post: #9
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
(2020-04-11 13:01)PinkDolphin Wrote:  I disagree that domestication means nearly nothing (what ur text comes down to really short said)
That really wasn't my point, as I expressly said:
(2020-04-11 9:45)Ora Wrote:  I think it's like a lot of things: as every animal is unique, we can't really make a generality out of this question.
But I get why you understood my previous post that way, I probably didn't explain myself well.

Otherwise, your reply actually seconds what I was trying to say: no, animals didn't "evolve" to become domesticated. The experiment is really interesting, but it proves that we have to involve ourselves in the breeding process of the animal for it to become domesticated. If we didn't, they wouldn't have become so close to us.
Of course, there is a difference between domesticated animals and wild animals, and it's honestly nice that scientists discovered the cause of it (ie. the hormone you mentioned). As I don't really know much about science, I was talking much more about the emotional/mental side of the domestication from my experience only, so your input is much appreciated.

(I'm wondering if we're going too far in this thread...? I hope we're not off-topic.)

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(This post was last modified: 2020-04-12 17:50 by Ora.)
2020-04-12 9:19
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Post: #10
RE: Domestication is not an animal trait
(2020-04-10 21:59)Kyra Wrote:  I completely agree, however, I do have one nuance against your statement: the past-life theory. Horse (or any usually domesticated animal) therians might have the feeling of wanting to be domesticated or have the feeling that they should wear collars or so because they might believe that, in their past life, they were domesticated. I personally have a different view on my Therianthropy theories (multi-universal), but I know many therians who believe they have memories of a past life. So that might explain a few things.

I agree with Kyra on this. Past-life theory probably has something to do with that.

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