"Dog" as a gender

On one level this is obviously ridiculous. On another... as said by others being a dog(or any other animal) does create in some ways an altered experience of gender. While humans will call a dog "boy" and 'girl" based on sex outside of different coloured collars sometime the treatment of each doesn't really fit with human gender roles(and the differences in actual behaviour... there's a difference in urinary marking but not all that much else). The expectations imposed on a dog also differ from the expectations of human gender roles sufficiently that trying to live the role of a dog(which... I've got lots of objections to the way dogs generally treated, canine rights now, etc but... even in my ideal world where we're acknowledged as a different kind of people but still definitely granted personhood both socially and legally there will still be a definite division of labour between species and we'll still serve our human family/friends in different role than human friends/family serve each other) will lead you to troubles with human gender expectations. The combination of somewhat submissive(I prefer to think of it as being friendly and helpful but... submissiveness is what we're bred for) with protectiveness that is stereotypically "dog" doesn't fit in with assumed gender roles for either human males or females(of course, even with humans those roles are kind of total bullshit but I'm talking in terms of the social expectation imposed on people). Showing vulnerability is not only considered acceptable for a dog but is expected to some degree(rolling over for belly rubs, whining being somewhat more acceptable, etc) but this doesn't fit in with how female humans are expected to be vulnerable exactly either plus play fighting(which in humans would be a "male" activity stereotypically-reminder I'm talking about imposed social expectations I acknowledge are bullshit) is except for humans who don't understand the difference between play fighting and real aggression generally considered somewhat acceptable.

So "my gender is dog" kind of makes a TINY bit of sense(due to socially constructed roles being imposed on one-that to some degree through breeding even can become embedded instinctively-that do not fit with either human gender or even necessarily with classifying oneself as non-binary) in a way "my gender is lizard" doesn't because gender is socially constructed and the way it's cosntructed for either male or female humans doesn't fit with either the natural instinctive tendencies of dogs OR with the social construction of the role of "dog"(though no dog should feel obligated to fit into the socially constructed, human-imposed role of "Dog" outside of the context of ones duties towards a loving family/close family-like social group).

Sorry if this stupid, hope all well.

(2020-08-18 11:47)gargoyle Wrote:  While I agree that "dog" (or any kintype) isn't a gender, I heard some people explain it as "my kintype influences my gender", and that's why they use terms like "doggender" (I don't know if that term actually exists). I personally can't relate to that, and my kintypes don't really affect my gender, but I can see how those terms could be helpful for some people.

I'm not sure, but I've seen the "deergender"/"fawngender" flag. And apparently someone made an Otherkin pride flag...?



Okay, look and listen for a second. I am a wolf therian. I am also a transgender demiboy. DO those two connect in any way? NO. Was I a male wolf? I don't know, but I probably was. But my theriotype has no bearing on my gender whatsoever, much less identify my gender as that. If I go to a Pride Parade, I'm going to wear my collar, and possibly wear my tail, but I'm not going to wave an otherkin "pride flag" because IT IS NOT MY OR ANY ACTUAL GENDER and is NOT RELATED TO ME BEING PAN OR TRANS.

I don't know why this shait exists, honestly. It confuses everyone and makes us seem like special snowflakes because a few people identify as "demiqueer demisexual aromantic pansexual genderfluid gendervoid faekin/plantkin and I use flick/flicks/flickself pronouns" (and yes I have seen that before)

Just stop. Please. Before I ship myself a one-way ticket to Saturn.

Hey all,

Had an interesting conversation today in the shoutbox and thought I'd update this thread.

Discussing their PFP:

CrowsDen Wrote:it is the crowgender flag some made for xenogenders! it helps me get away with being a bird in person when people don't get it i can just be like "oh its a nonbinary identity". I mean its technically not a lie! I am a non fem or masc bird so like my gender is also bird. my mate doesn't mind it any so i think im safe lol

I think this is the first positive thing someone said about xenogenders, that actually makes sense to me.

Obviously the nonbinary genders community has a lot more people in it than the therian community, so it would indeed make sense to present therianthropy as a xenogender, in order to help people who are unfamiliar with therianthropy understand us. I don't claim that it is similar (I'm a straight cis male, so I wouldn't know either way), it's just close enough for someone who has no idea.

Although it's probably debatable whether gender is intrinsic, or assigned by society; in relation to what CrowsDen was saying about their gender (and as discussed previously on this thread)... My gender, in terms of what I feel on the inside, doesn't fit the human male stereotype very well. I'm more like a male wolf, polite and shy.

@Werewulfra argued that "male wolf" is technically a xenogender. So there you have it. I'm actually one of them silly youngsters.

LP,
Dusty

Apparently, being "kingender" is a thing.

https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Kingender

I agree with Dusty though, I can totally see how presenting your therianthropy as something more "common", in this case a differing gender identity, could help one get by as identifying as their theriotype(s) in the real world

My gender is just bleh. I'm genderfluid, so really my gender can be anything at the drop of a hat, and it's easier to not to keep tabs on it. I just exist. Xenogenders sound really interesting though and if I could have chosen my gender I would probably have gone with one of the fuanagenders for this exact same reason

(2020-09-29 15:52)SpookedGlisten Wrote:  

(2020-08-18 11:47)gargoyle Wrote:  While I agree that "dog" (or any kintype) isn't a gender, I heard some people explain it as "my kintype influences my gender", and that's why they use terms like "doggender" (I don't know if that term actually exists). I personally can't relate to that, and my kintypes don't really affect my gender, but I can see how those terms could be helpful for some people.

I'm not sure, but I've seen the "deergender"/"fawngender" flag. And apparently someone made an Otherkin pride flag...?



Okay, look and listen for a second. I am a wolf therian. I am also a transgender demiboy. DO those two connect in any way? NO. Was I a male wolf? I don't know, but I probably was. But my theriotype has no bearing on my gender whatsoever, much less identify my gender as that. If I go to a Pride Parade, I'm going to wear my collar, and possibly wear my tail, but I'm not going to wave an otherkin "pride flag" because IT IS NOT MY OR ANY ACTUAL GENDER and is NOT RELATED TO ME BEING PAN OR TRANS.

I don't know why this shait exists, honestly. It confuses everyone and makes us seem like special snowflakes because a few people identify as "demiqueer demisexual aromantic pansexual genderfluid gendervoid faekin/plantkin and I use flick/flicks/flickself pronouns" (and yes I have seen that before)

Just stop. Please. Before I ship myself a one-way ticket to Saturn.

As someone who uses rat/rats
First of all, gender as a whole was made up by humans, it’s a concept, not a fact. Now that that’s out of the way,
It creates the same gender euphoria as other pronouns, if not more, as my species is part of my gender identity, I am a rat. I am gender-fluid due to not feeling particularly comfortable with the human made concept of gender itself, so my usage of it fluctuates as it suits me to be comfortable. but something I always am, is a rat. And this gives people a concrete pronoun set to always use that keeps me comfortable (when I don’t update my status w the ones I’m using)
It’s not bc I want to feel “special” it’s because it makes me comfortable.
So no, I will not stop being my true self because others can not comprehend it, and I will not be ashamed of my identity.

Yes, this offends me. This is bullcrap. Dog is not a gender. I support xenogenders, but to a point. Animals is not gender.

I'll preface by saying I am transgender, although I don't identify with any animal genders.
I feel as though sticking your snout into other people's identities to discuss their validity is very upsetting. Being curious is one thing, but I see people in this thread being downright disrespectful. It is no one's place to decide where the line "should be drawn" in terms of how far gender identity/queer identity in general can go. It's none of our business.
The trans community should uplift each other. God knows we need it. This behavior reminds me of when Nonbinary was first becoming a more commonly used term online. Just let people be who they are. A large portion of people I've seen who are animalgender are very sweet people, no one is trying to enroach on therian identity to feel special. They are just trying to be themselves.

I am used to know that gender is related to sex identity of somebody, and xenogender feels irregular to me.
Can someone logically explain what gender is?(tag me)
Thank you. Otherwise, this is an absurd for me.

I don't believe gender is just a construct. I also don't believe animal is a gender, it's a species. I do however believe people can be trans, gender fluid, or non-binary. However if someone want me to call them dog etc...I don't actually care that much, I will just call them that.

However this needs to be said.

I never bought into the whole "gender is just a construct" thing. It's a statement that gets regurgitated a lot without really being substantiated by anything. Even in other mammals you see gender roles, because gender roles largely arise out of biology, out of hormones. If gender were really imaginary then trans people would not feel the need take hormones to transition to their opposite gender so they could feel more male or female. They would just be what they are, no? (Which to make myself clear here I have no problem with trans or non-binary people)

Now, are we more than just our hormones and biology? Of course, and therefore some exist outside of and or the opposite of the binary. But the biology is real nonethless which gender undeniably comes from. Are there certain arbitrary constructs like colors, clothes, behaviors, toys etc that get assigned to genders? Yes, and those are just social constructs, but there are things that at the very foundation make gender a real, definable thing, certain instincts, behaviors and affinities that arise out of biology that create recognizable inherent differences between the masculine and feminine.

I will refer to people what they wish me to. That's never been a problem for me. I give respect if it is given, if informed of what a person prefers respectfully...all good with me. But I just don't buy into the whole making it like any and all distinctions between the male and female are just made up and it's a free for all.

In short, l don't think animal is a gender, but if someone wishes me to call them whatever animal they are I will do that. I don't actually care all that much about it. Just in my own mind an animal is never going to be a gender to me.

(2023-02-17 16:26)astrophelalbatross Wrote:  no one is trying to enroach on therian identity to feel special.

While this is kinda off topic, I feel this perspective is a bit naive. Sure, a lot of trans people are not treated well by society and deserve to be supported and empowered.

But what is probably the vast majority of people who outwardly identify one way or another, are just teenagers exploring their identity, trying on different things to see what fits, or trying to fit in with notable role-models in the community, who are encouraging them to identify in a specific way (whether or not this actually fits the individual personally). To deny that this pattern exists, I feel is irresponsible.

An important part of understanding one's therianthropy is understanding oneself and seeing oneself clearly. This can only be accomplished, after obstacles like the above, are overcome.

LP,
Dusty